DEQX Premate 8 digital active crossover / DSP

[voodooless]

Plus DIYers will generally want assistance, and they expect you to do that for free.

By definition, those people are not DIYers

 

[fatoldgit]

Forgot to add...

The fact that they are at least 1.5 years behind the initial advertised release date AND they need to offer the new product as a beta says to me:

1- they have had substantial issues in the development process
2- they arent confident they have it right (hence the beta)
3- they need money/have cash flow issues so they can only entice people to buy the beta at a 50% off price.

To me, the whole scenario stinks a bit.

And dont blame covid...the sticking point obviously is the software which is done in-house.

Peter

 

[Bjorn]

By definition, those people are not DIYers

They are in the majority it seems to me.

BTW: DEQX are offering more than a 8 channel DSP. There's 4-channel unit and an integrated device with Hypex modules. So the latter two would typically be something customers use with passive speakers, where the 4-channel could be used with 2 subwoofers.

Choose a DEQX - DEQX

DEQX Audio Processors The new DEQX Gen4 speaker calibration and room correction processors feature an order-of-magnitude improvement in resolution, all-new digital and analog hardware and unparalleled connectivity. LS200 Integrated Power Pre-4 Digital Preamp Pre-8 Advanced HD-Active Subscribe...

www.deqx.com

 

[voodooless]

They are in the majority it seems to me.

I’m not surprised

BTW: DEQX are offering more than a 8 channel DSP. There's 4-channel unit and an integrated device with Hypex modules. So the latter two would typically be something customers use with passive speakers, where the 4-channel could be used with 2 subwoofers.

Choose a DEQX - DEQX

DEQX Audio Processors The new DEQX Gen4 speaker calibration and room correction processors feature an order-of-magnitude improvement in resolution, all-new digital and analog hardware and unparalleled connectivity. LS200 Integrated Power Pre-4 Digital Preamp Pre-8 Advanced HD-Active Subscribe...

www.deqx.com

Sure, but those products are not the subject of the discussion, and frankly make much more sense to me.

 

[Bjorn]

Forgot to add...

The fact that they are at least 1.5 years behind the initial advertised release date AND they need to offer the new product as a beta says to me:

1- they have had issues in the development process
2- they arent confident they have it right (hence the beta)
3- they need money/have cash flow issues so they can only entice people to buy the beta at a 50% off price.

To me, the whole scenario stinks a bit.

Peter

The delay is very much related to the fact that the processing board they were going to use went out of production when they were close to finishing the product. So they had to rewrite the software.

 

[fatoldgit]

The delay is very much related to the fact that the processing board they were going to use went out of production when they were close to finishing the product. So they had to rewrite the software.

Hmm... any clue why they went out of production?

And as a software developer (but not DSP) in theory they could have implemented a translation API between the new software and the new board (i.e. not a complete rewrite).

There are only so many functions that the underlying board would support and in theory (again no experience with this specific use case) the functionality between DSP boards might be very similar. But maybe the realtime nature meant that wasnt going to work.

Related... do you think the price hike is related to the fact that maybe the new supplier has them by the testies....or that the new suppliers board are way more expensive than the defunct supplier.

I had assumed for the previous models that they did all the board level stuff inhouse .

Peter

 

[Bjorn]

Hmm... any clue why they went out of production?

And as a software developer (but not DSP) in theory they could have implemented a translation API between the new software and the new board (i.e. not a complete rewrite).

There are only so many functions that the underlying board would support and in theory (again no experience with this specific use case) the functionality between DSP boards might be very similar.

Related... do you think the price hike is related to the fact that maybe the new supplier has them by the testies....or that the new suppliers board are way more expensive they the defunct supplier.

I had assumed for the previous models that they did all the board level stuff inhouse .

Peter

Not sure why. May have been replaced.
It depends on how the new software is written. All I have liberty of sharing here is that it's done in a new way that required writing it from the ground up.

First of all, I'm not sure the mentioned price tag here is correct. I'm pretty sure it's lower, unless something new has recently happened. But it's certainly considerably higher than $6k. The intial $6K would have increased anyway due to higher component cost in the market today plus the large increase in freight.

Other than that, it wouldn't be right of me to speculate. I just hope it's not also related to the fact the some dealers have been pushing a higher price tag, which many of them believe is required to sell to a certain audience. I believe we have a decent customer group who would be willing to pay around $6K, but with a severe increase I'm uncertain of big the market is. With an objective approach to audio, you also today loose a certain group. Just convincing many to go active instead of passive is a real challenge.

BTW: I believe the Danville dspNexus has been delayed for more than 2 years.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

The above posts are the reason you shouldn't bother. I'm sure at least one if not both of the people who have had a go at you have approached you for cheaper cheaper cheaper.

If it's that easy then they can do it themselves. But it's not. So they don't because they can't. Instead they sling mud at those that do. You are still the only one who has a complete list of measurements on their forum about there products performance.

DSP is now considered a commodity item so general purpose configurable DSP/Processor is not worthy doing these days.

Have a nice day.

 

[noiseangel]

Not sure why. May have been replaced.
It depends on how the new software is written. All I have liberty of sharing here is that it's done in a new way that required writing it from the ground up.

First of all, I'm nor sure they mentioned price tag here is correct. I'm pretty sure it's lower, unless something new has recently happened. But it's certainly considerably higher than $6k. The intial $6K would have increased anyway due to higher component cost in the market today plus the large increase in freight.

Other than that, it wouldn't be right of me to speculate. I just hope it's not also related to the fact the some dealers have been pushing a higher price tag, which many of them believe is required to sell to a certain audience. I believe we have a decent customer group who would be willing to pay around $6K, but with a severe increase I'm uncertain of big the market is. With an objective approach to audio, you also today loose a certain group. Just convincing many to go active instead of passive is a real challenge.

BTW: I believe the Danville dspNexus has been delayed for more than 2 years.

And this why people need to charge the money they do for these products. Coding and hardware development aren't cheap but certain people in here want other people's products cheaper cheaper cheaper. If you want DSP and won't pay what deqx, Danville, analog precision etc are asking for their development heavy products then bloody well make your own and stop whinging and wining when others need to recoup their investment and eat at the same time.

Buy minidsp and be done with it. You obviously have no idea what goes into one of these products.

Cheaper cheaper cheaper.

You complain about people calling you and asking to sell your products cheaper and don't like it yet you do the same thing.

 

[dannut]

I'm sorry of my venting here, but I'm quite frustated with the DSP market. One of my own brands, Vera Audio, did consider developing a DSP several years ago. But we found it we take too long. So I've been waiting for other DSPs to get to the market which we could use with planned active speakers. And it's dissapointing what we're seeing. The new DEQX was suppose to cost about the same as the previous model. Something that's expensive but still obtainable for a good number. But now with the high price increase, I fear the market will be very small. It would also be kind of strange to offer a DSP that costs considerable more than several of our speakers.

Both Danville and Analogue Precision has chosen a platform that's simply not user friendly in any way (no matter what they say). miniDSP doesn't offer the quality we need in several areas and also don't care about the OEM market but prioritize selling direct (mark up is super small for those sell their products).

I've used a PC software myself, but obviously not a route to go commercially. So it's all quite frustating. Of course we can use Hypex plate amps and we do plan to offer that as well, but the Hypex DSP isn't stellar neither in sound quality or in processing power and user friendliness.

OT - If you are allergic to Hypex Filter Designer then maybe FourAudio platform meets your needs? You better like Pascal modules then Both have OEM features you seek.

 

[Bjorn]

It was mentioned somewhere that the software was automatic. I don't know whether they will distinguish here between customers and OEM dealers with active speakers, but I've bee told that it will be possible to change things manually as well. So it's possible to run a correction automatic but without being bound to it and with the ability to change whatever one wants. For us, that's very important.

The clear distunguish between speaker and "room correction" is also something I highly value with DEQX. This gives the freedom of correcting what should be corrected and leave out what shouldn't be corrected, which IMO is exteremely important for a truly great result. I have listened to enough of corrected systems that didn't sound natural and good because of wrong usage.

DEQX only uses FIR for the lows and not mids and highs when running the "room correction" BTW.

 

[Bjorn]

OT - If you are allergic to Hypex Filter Designer then maybe FourAudio platform meets your needs? You better like Pascal modules then Both have OEM features you seek.

I'm not "allergic" to the Hypex DSP solution. I haven't said that. I have just mentioned it's not the best in terms of user friendliness which is has to do with the end customer and not me. And the sound quality lacks some to be transparent. It was quite easy to distinguish the Hypex DSP from for example the miniDSP Flex 4-channel unit.

 

[noiseangel]

There are very few people in the world who can do these products properly. The rest wish they could just get it for $25.

 

[AudioJester]

Lots of blaming, whinging, accusing, whining going on here.
Just go listen to some music and get over it

 

[Galliardist]

Obviously the DEQX isn't aimed at the DIY market. The case alone, and which is very expensive to manufacture, tells us that.

The DIY market is generally not a lucrative market to aim for. I have had people contacting me about buying our midrange or midbass horn separately and they offer me often less than the building price of the horn alone .They have little understanding of the cost of developing and manufacturing. Only the software we're using cost several thousand dollars. And you spend years in development with several prototypes.

Plus DIYers will generally want assistance, and they expect you to do that for free.

I presume the target market for this product consists largely of Kyron Audio, Legend Acoustics and any other speaker manufacturers that used its predecessor.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

Lots of blaming, whinging, accusing, whining going on here.
Just go listen to some music and get over it

Best advice I have heard all day

 

[BDWoody]

Maybe trying to get a freebie? Or becoe a middle aged influencer?

Maybe this is way over the top, and you need a break.

Like casting pearls at swines. And I like writing DSP code because I know how to do it too LOL

Yeah... We are a bunch of swine for sure.

Btw those two mods that I wrote about on my forum are still there. They didn't get banned at all. How come ??

Hard to imagine.

Moderators are just bastards...

 

[Keith_W]

It’s literally only half the FIR taps of the DeqX (2048 vs 4096 per channel). What other lacks would you point to?

Not quite, the MiniDSP has 4096 taps in total which can be distributed over 2 to 8 channels. Meaning 512 taps per channel if you distribute the taps equally over all 8 channels. Of course, you shouldn't do this and you should reserve the taps for bass; MiniDSP says that each channel must have a minimum of 2 taps and a maximum of 2048. The DEQX has 4096 taps per channel for 8 channels, i.e. 32,768 taps in total. You can certainly make a MiniDSP work, and I have said so repeatedly in this thread. But it would be nice if it had more computing power.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

The SHARC DSP in the minidsp runs at 450MHz I believe which means it can process 900 MMACS (million multiply accumulates or taps)

Just divide 900 million by the sample rate to get the theoretical maximum number of taps. It's as simple as that

@192KHz 900e6/192000 = 4687 taps
@96KHz 900e6/96000 = 9375 taps
@48KHz 900e6/48000 = 18750 taps

cheers

 

[ocinn]

Pure comedy.

A Q-SYS Core 110F can be configured for 8x16 natively (16x16 over usb as well) and has 16,384 taps per channel. Easily available used for under $1300. Want more I/O? No worries, buy networked modules and enjoy 128x128 processing. Did I mention it was <$1300 used?

Don’t want Q-Sys? Symetrix, Biamp, Linea Research, and NST, all offer processors which make consumer paperweights like this seem like a total joke for the price. The price you pay is you need to make some phoenix to XLR adapters, and manually generate your FIR and room correction filters. happy to spend a couple hours doing that and save $11,000.

People buying Dirac+minidsp products generally do not care about technical filter tap performance advantages. They want a cheap, easy to use, and bulletproof solution for crossover and room correction, that takes 45min and <$1000 to achieve a near perfect result for consumer gear.

Those who are going to dive deep into technical perfection (usually with complex active multi-way DIY systems) use something like a QSys, or, manage all of their processing on a computer and then to multichannel DACs.

I don’t understand the market for a $12,000 device in this category. If I had pockets that deep and refused to buy professional gear or host processing on a computer I would be buying super-exotic solutions like BAACH…. Not this.