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Is DSD superior or just the audio file du jour?

Discussion in 'Digital Audio' started by Phelonious Ponk, May 31, 2016.

  1. Thomas savage

    Thomas savage Moderator Moderator The Watchman

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    We are going some what thermonuclear in our subjectivity though :D

    Might crash the servers!
     
  2. TBone

    TBone Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    The odd SACDs are mixed in and sold as used CDs in my local. Never paid much attention prior, until recently purchased a used SRV CD which was actually a SACD without CD layer. Considered final sales, non returnable, so buyer beware.
     
  3. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Senior Member

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    Well, yes. I am sure that we have all seen tons of subjective arguments on DSD vs. PCM elsewhere, even by more credible guys like Waldrep, Hansen, etc. It is not new. I do not think we need to bring any of that here.

    We have also all seen the measurements - the ultrasonic noise shaping humps of DSD, the filter ringing of PCM, etc. There is plenty of that out there, too already, for those interested via a few google searches.

    I think what is potentially most interesting here are user opinions based on real experience from, giving those here the benefit of the doubt, reasonably sane audiophiles who have not drunk the Kool Aid, one way or the other.
     
  4. AJ Soundfield

    AJ Soundfield Major Contributor

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    Right, self assessed "objective" types who are self immunized against bias and hate dissenting science views, so make them disappear.
    Exactly like every believer forum.
     
  5. Thomas savage

    Thomas savage Moderator Moderator The Watchman

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    Where are the 'dissenting' science views? I don't see a subjective argument engaging science here!

    There is nothing scientific about being obnoxious, arrogant and belligerent.

    If I have met anyone online who exhibits a religious ' believer ' type profile it's you AJ.

    You have turned objective reasoning into a religion, you really should take your jihad some place else.

    Dr. Spazmatron diagnoses you with ' objectivists ' Psychosis.
     
  6. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Senior Member

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    Sorry, TBone, I do not have Ziggy Stardust in my feeble non-classical album collection.

    FWIW, my favorite SACDs in the rock genre are the classic Mch Allman Bros. albums, apparently captured in Quad-era Mch with really good sound:

    At Fillmore East
    Eat a Peach

    Another sentimental favorite I have in Mch is an expensive Japanese remastering of The Who's Quadrophenia. But, the sound is not all that outstanding.

    I have maybe 50-100 others in rock.

    Edit: whoops, my Quadrophenia is in stereo, not Mch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  7. TBone

    TBone Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    taking the bait ...

    Thomas, I ventured outside this early morning, and right away, those same pesky bug(s), after repeated attempts, tried chomp my ass.
    upload_2016-6-1_10-22-53.jpeg

    Rods are hand built, using the finest Loomis blanks, SIC guides, and high quality cork; very expensive "tools". That said, I have no scientific evidence that they catch more fish compared to my cheaply built store bought rods. No matter, I'll keep casting away ...
     
  8. Phelonious Ponk

    Phelonious Ponk Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    I'm confused. Is DSD the same as SACD?

    Tim
     
  9. TBone

    TBone Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    No apology required Fitz, we all make mistakes :rolleyes: (well, at least some of us)

    A friend kid has a Sony Play Station, was going to borrow it to rip my SACDs. But after reading your post, I've decided the risk of burning out his unit was not worth the effort. Thanks for the heads-up. I guess I'll end up giving away my collection in time ...
     
  10. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Senior Member

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    If you ever decide to give SACD ripping a whirl, let me know. You have to use certain very specific models of SACD-capable PS3s. And, even they cannot have had their OS updated beyond release level 3.55. Sony caught their error and fixed the OS to not enable rollbacks without knowledgeable technical expertise, which is rare.

    So, it is tricky. But, I can direct you to the right places to learn more.

    There might be another $200 solution under development by the same hacker, Mr. Wicked. It involves a custom built device, a special purpose processor, using only the SACD internal drive from a PS3. But, it has been a couple of years with no further info from him. We keep hoping, but possibly it will never happen.
     
  11. Thomas savage

    Thomas savage Moderator Moderator The Watchman

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    :)

    Not to worry t-bone, I have gone thermonuclear on them there bugs;) just as well you were not relaying on them for bait mind:D

    Sexy rods, all that's missing is a cool box full of craft ale. :)
     
  12. Thomas savage

    Thomas savage Moderator Moderator The Watchman

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    Dsd is the digital format of SACD . Dsd64 .
     
  13. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    Direct-Stream Digital (DSD) is the trademark name used by Sony and Philips for their system of digitally recreating audible signals for the Super Audio CD (SACD).
     
  14. TBone

    TBone Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    Fitz, any chance that a Sony VAIO computer (didn't some have sacd capability?) could be used to rip?
     
  15. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Major Contributor Industry Insider Barrowmaster

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    You can also use an Atlona de embedder, doesn't have to be Atlona but I believe they work.
    Keith,
     
  16. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Senior Member

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    Yup, and the SACD's use of DSD is very robustly encrypted by both the SACD optical drive and software. An SACD usually contains a separate, unencrypted CD layer, which any CD player can read. This is called an SACD hybrid. But, the DSD layer, often containing both a separate stereo and a Mch program (selectable on playback), can only be read by an SACD optical drive, which uses special pit width modulation, unlike all other consumer optical drives. The SACD drive can read both the CD and the encrypted DSD layers.

    But, DSD itself is merely an unencrypted format once freed of DRM on the SACD. It is possible to download or stream unencrypted DSD from some websites, for example.

    There are also output restrictions on licensed SACD players, which can legally send out the hi rez DSD or a hi rez PCM conversion at 88 or 176k of that only via HDMI, which has its own DRM = HDCP. So, you cannot copy hi rez from a licensed SACD player.
     
  17. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Senior Member

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    I think some older Vaios could play SACD, but I never heard of anyone ever ripping successfully that way. Believe me, if it were possible, it would be all over forums for SACD fans.
     
  18. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Senior Member

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    I have not heard of a lot of success with SACD using deembedders. Not much success with other hi rez formats either, as far as I am aware. They are limited in what they can do.
     
  19. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    Then theres DOP - DSD Over PCM (over USB)

    [​IMG]

    Transport the single bit stream of DSD in the data of PCM to be decoded as a stream of bits instead of sample word bytes...

    http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard
     
  20. Sal1950

    Sal1950 Major Contributor The Chicago Crusher

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    It appeared your idea came to be,
    I was unable to access the site late last night for while till I gave up and went to bed. Some time around 1:00 AM my time IIFC
     

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