TIDAL is NOT Worth it! Listening Test

[Sal1950]

I can understand why someone would not want to support their business or in my case their music...

Yes BOTH!

 

[fas42]

Uh-oh! YouTube appear to have cottoned on to the 720p anomaly, and are "correcting" it, as we speak, . Channels which had high quality sound have now lost it - I did some investigating, and videos that were uploaded say 6 months ago have just been re-encoded, literally a week or so ago - dropping the quality back to the 128 or so level.

So, now Tim is correct - the clip audio quality will typically be marginal, a deliberate decision by YouTube, apparently ...

Finally did some tests of what YouTube is doing with encoding at the moment, and some good news! 192 audio is still available, but the video has to be uploaded with audio in 44.1k, not 48k, sampling rate. That is, uncompressed audio sent to YouTube, at 48k yields 126kbps AAC, at 44.1k yields 192kbps AAC - when the video is at 720p or higher, and then listened at the 720p setting.

I've left the test clips at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzkx85ez3DVxRAnpkbQEA2w/videos - same source file on my laptop, one resampled in Audacity to give two files for uploading. Have a listen at 720p for both - obvious on my laptop, to me at least, .

 

[dallasjustice]

Here's more Tidal controversy. It's no wonder Apple wasn't interested in buying.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jay-...idal-accused-of-inflating-user-numbers-2017-1

 

[Thomas savage]

Here's more Tidal controversy. It's no wonder Apple wasn't interested in buying.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jay-...idal-accused-of-inflating-user-numbers-2017-1

No doubt in due diligence ( or preliminary analysis ) Apple discovered this.. Or other things.., who knows.. Don't sue me JZZZZZZZZ

Sadly corporate behemoths ( and political ones) love to buy cheat and steel 'cool' anything they can use as a bridge to connect with the youthful aliens ( as they see them, such is their disconnection from reality) .

 

[Sal1950]

Here's more Tidal controversy. It's no wonder Apple wasn't interested in buying.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jay-...idal-accused-of-inflating-user-numbers-2017-1

Just SOP from those gangsters and crooks. They inflate user numbers when that is financially to their advantage. Then deflate the numbers when it comes time to pay their friends in the music business.

 

[watchnerd]

Apple may have lost interest in Tidal.

But WMG might buy it, given their mutual linkage with MQA and their desire to push it.

 

[amirm]

Keeping two sets of books is common in entertainment industry. Record labels for example have a different set of books than the one the use to pay royalties to the talent.

 

[Sal1950]

Keeping two sets of books is common in entertainment industry. Record labels for example have a different set of books than the one the use to pay royalties to the talent.

Goes on everywhere Amir, not just entertainment. Nice way to avoid paying taxes too. LOL

Crooks is the correct name for them, don't support em.

 

[Ken Newton]

Good watch. It is another piece of evidence that most people can't even hear the difference between compressed and uncompressed music let alone all the esoteric things we throw money at...

Listening test involving average Janes and Joes always strike me as missing a key factor regarding the audibility of differences. Such tets assume that all listeners have similar audio observational knowledge and experience. They do not. While audiophiles have no better hearing acuity than does the general popolutation they are more knowledgable and experienced in hearing the flaws of electronic reproduction. Perhaps, the most basic example of that is how most people will describe a system with bloated bass as sounding superior, but experienced audiophiles know better. In short, audiophiles don't have better developed hearing acuity, they have better developed auditory observational skills.

This is analogous to how people with knowledge and familiarity of a given sport will appreciate the play on a level much different than does the casual sports watcher. The knowledgable sports fan doesn't have better developed visual acuity, they have better developed observational skills.

 

[Sal1950]

This is analogous to how people with knowledge and familiarity of a given ------------

Certainly. Same as I can listen to the noise coming from a running engine and diagnose the difference between a piston slap, rod knock, or tappet noise. A learned skill.

 

[watchnerd]

Sprint acquires 33% stake in Tidal:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/softbank-owned-sprint-acquires-33-of-tidal/

 

[amirm]

This is analogous to how people with knowledge and familiarity of a given sport will appreciate the play on a level much different than does the casual sports watcher. The knowledgable sports fan doesn't have better developed visual acuity, they have better developed observational skills.

In sports there is an independent referee that judges whether you did good or not. In audiophile world, there listener is his own judge and as a result, he constantly leads himself to wrong conclusions. That in turn means much of their accumulated learning about gear is faulty. This is tested time and time again with audiophiles not being able to pick apart night and day differences in blind tests.

In that sense when it comes to non-linear and complex distortions, audiophiles are quite blind to it and hence all the effort they put in eliminating them is for not. Compression artifacts are one such distortion. The most subtle thing it does is destroy reverb trails and transients. If someone doesn't hear them then what are the odds that they hear the same in equipment differences?

The most audible distortion to all of us is linear transformations such as rooms and speaker response differences. In this domain yes, we all are more skilled than average Joe.

 

[Ken Newton]

In sports there is an independent referee that judges whether you did good or not. In audiophile world, there listener is his own judge and as a result, he constantly leads himself to wrong conclusions

And how, exactly, do you suppose that those referees gained their judgment skills?

In that sense when it comes to non-linear and complex distortions, audiophiles are quite blind to it and hence all the effort they put in eliminating them is for not. Compression artifacts are one such distortion. The most subtle thing it does is destroy reverb trails and transients. If someone doesn't hear them then what are the odds that they hear the same in equipment differences?...The most audible distortion to all of us is linear transformations such as rooms and speaker response differences. In this domain yes, we all are more skilled than average Joe.

None of which refutes the point that their are differences in observational skill among individual listeners. What some particular observed difference may or may not be due to is a seperate question. Of course, human bias can apply, as it can apply to any subjective observation. My suggestion is that most 'scientific' listening tests are not truly scientific because they don't account for the variable of observational skill differences among the test subject.

 

[amirm]

My suggestion is that most 'scientific' listening tests are not truly scientific because they don't account for the variable of observational skill differences among the test subject.

Countless ones do. Ratings are provided for both individuals and collective. Training is allowed and recommended, etc.

 

[amirm]

And how, exactly, do you suppose that those referees gained their judgment skills?

By being judged themselves.

 

[Ken Newton]

By being judged themselves.

That education chain had to begin somewhere. It's not circularly referential, nor an infinite regression. You don't seem to be allowing for personal experience and discovery to play a valid role in learning, which they do.

 

[amirm]

That education chain had to begin somewhere. It's not circularly referential, nor an infinite regression. You don't seem to be allowing for personal experience and discovery to play a valid role in learning, which they do.

I do actually. If I am a runner, I can use a timer to know how fast I finish. That simple tool does not exist for audiophiles. Instead they rely on their gut feeling, wet thumb in the air, etc. to know how fast they ran. Worse yet, they put aside all logic and science and apt to believe in any and all things to be true. Net result is that there is no correct assessment whatsoever.

 

[fas42]

Using the sporting analogy, achieving in audio is not how fast you run, but becoming aware of poor technique, basic mistakes in how you move your limbs, etc, incorrect adjustment or poor choice of the gear you're using. A tennis player doesn't become better, win more events because he serves harder, or makes fancier shots; it's rather that when the pressure is on that he doesn't lose it, remains composed - consistency under all conditions will win through, every time.

And that's why he uses a coach, or with an open mind reviews footage of his own performance - he sees the weaknesses, failings, and it's the overcoming of those that will make him a consistent winner.

 

[watchnerd]

Using the sporting analogy, achieving in audio is not how fast you run, but becoming aware of poor technique, basic mistakes in how you move your limbs, etc, incorrect adjustment or poor choice of the gear you're using. A tennis player doesn't become better, win more events because he serves harder, or makes fancier shots; it's rather that when the pressure is on that he doesn't lose it, remains composed - consistency under all conditions will win through, every time.

And that's why he uses a coach, or with an open mind reviews footage of his own performance - he sees the weaknesses, failings, and it's the overcoming of those that will make him a consistent winner.

And how does this connect to TIDAL?

 

[fas42]

Well, at the moment we appear to be discussing how to assess competence, capability ...