RME ADI-2 FS Version 2 DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[C. Cook]

...well, you might say I am in a state of flux......yea, that sounds like a good way to put it...!!!...

...I had a Dayton APA 150 set up with new ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 speakers fed by Adcom GTP 450...I was messing around with a Modi 3+...I thought it was Schitt...

...now I have flaked on the D90 DAC as well, the APA 150 is in storage agan, the ELAC's are on the way back to Amazon, and a Niles SI 2150 amp is inbound...so I guess that is the amp I'm using......if it works...

...I loved the speakers but they have tendency to hurt my ear in the voice range...I seeem to be sensitve to the aluminum drivers...thinking of trying the DBR62's and hoping the Uni-Fi 2.0 has not spoiled me...

...FWIW I have the Modi 3+ working better now...I don't know what I was doing wrong before...

...now I am trying to decide between the ADI-2 and Qutest...

I had the original Uni-Fi from Elac and also sent them back for a refund. They were too harsh and blaring at higher volumes and some melodies or background melodies completely disappeared from some of my 'important' test tracks.

 

[C. Cook]

These post gave me the impression that differences in sound was the thing you are worried about when changing the DAC chips in the product:

[/QUOTE]
Yes, the AKM chip - in as far as it's implemented within the surrounding analog circuitry by RME - does sound "smoother" and I can say that on the basis of three different AKM products from three different mfg's. (Teac, RME and back in the day Slim Devices) compared against various ESS chip implementations, mostly 9028 and 9038 (Oppo, MyTEK, Topping, and more) and many of which in the same 'systems'. But that could be the other electronics.

As far as the impression, no of course I wouldn't think that the human ear (or ears as old as mine) could possibly hear the difference when we're talking about this bit depth w/ both of the AKM chips that RME has used. But I'm pretty sure there are measurable differences. Amir's post that was linked to above about the ADI-2 v.2 didn't make that abundantly clear to me, so I'm sure I read it somewhere else as well (or another user posted his own measurements somewhere).

The comment about it being "smoother" was meant as the AKM chips, plural, in my systems have in fact sounded slightly smoother than the ESS chips in various other DACs I've tried, but I haven't messed around with any digital filters nor do I recall which filter was used when listening to each product, so as an experiment it's entirely subject to lack of controls.

My only real point to start off this conversation was that well before the fire at the AKM plant, RME had already swapped the DAC chip with one that has a higher model number into the ADI-2 and not publicized it. I therefore conclude or at least surmise that they had a good reason for doing so. Maybe if I look around I can find an explanation.

Edit: Welp, that was easy. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/rme-changes-dac-chip.24736/

Most of that post is related to post-fire chip swapping and comparing the ESS9028 (I thought they used the 9038 now?), but he does say the following:

"The ADI-2 DAC was initially based on an AK4490, later on the AK4493." and I don't know if RME has said why they did that. But again, probably for a good reason, no?

 

[mugbot]

Could someone please define 'smooth' in the context of the conversation here? Just so we're on the same page.

 

[C. Cook]

Could someone please define 'smooth' in the context of the conversation here? Just so we're on the same page.

Errr..."warm" I guess? I.e., doesn't cause listening fatigue even with difficult source material? That's pretty much all I mean, and of course it's probably completely subjective, but I prefer the sound of the RME (and previously a Teac DAC I had) over the D90 and Oppo UDP-205 when used in specific systems. The Oppo and Topping sounded better to my ears with different configurations. No A/B blind much less double blind tests done, of course.

 

[C. Cook]

Here's some dude describing what he subjectively hears (no mention of associated equipment, so not of much value):

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/akms-velvet-sound.2356/ (warning, culturally insensitive language):

"The AK 4490 increased the detail, staging, and is definitely less out-of-phase. However AKM adopted some ridiculous Japanese audiophile Engrish coined "VELVET SOUND" philosophy that combines Chi-fi and Japan-fi tuning with a thick bass, blooming into the lower mids and "enhanced" highs as heard in the old Modi 2U vs the nu-Modi 2U which share the same analog section. The Grace M9XX and Bifrost 4990 were the same despite the Bifrost 4490 having a lot more detail than the smaller units."

That's definitely not how I'd describe the sound of the RME/AKM combo when used with one of my Hypex, Purifi or IcePower amps and different pairs of speakers, but whatever...

I have no experience w/ or knowledge of "super best audio friends" and therefore cannot rule out that it's a bunch of "subjectivists" rambling about "musicality" and "rhythm, pace and timing", pushing snake oil, etc.

 

[SIY]

Here's some dude describing what he subjectively hears (no mention of associated equipment, so not of much value):

That would make it of no more value. No controls, extraordinary claims, so it's got the weight of claimed alien abductions with anal probing.

 

[C. Cook]

That would make it of no more value. No controls, extraordinary claims, so it's got the weight of claimed alien abductions with anal probing.

LOL, yeah agree. This conversation about "smoothness" w/ the "Velvet Sound" DACs from AKM does have me curious as to how AKM defines "velvet sound" though. Just a marketing term/gimmick or somehow grounded in some technical reality?

 

[mugbot]

Likely marketing, I note in the quote they mention bass and treble boosting and it being 'less out of phase' all of which are measurable and have not been observed in devices which utilise these DAC chips.

 

[C. Cook]

Likely marketing, I note in the quote they mention bass and treble boosting and it being 'less out of phase' all of which are measurable and have not been observed in devices which utilise these DAC chips.

Yep. He seems to have pulled the ' less out of phase (than previous AKM chips?)' stuff out of thin air without the benefit of any backing measurements.

And to further clarify - or perhaps muddy - my previous use of the term "smoother", I should note that I almost never listen to the RME outside of the loudness mode (I sometimes even add EQ and/or bass/treble) but that when I do, it sounds the same as the Topping D90 in the same systems. That's one of the reasons I like the RME so much. However, I previously owned a TEAC UD-503 with a different AKM chip and it did sound 'warmer' or more rolled-off in the upper midrange and treble than my other DACs at the time; both via the built-in headphone amp and in my stereo setup. Not in a bad way, but noticeable, especially on certain speakers (JBL 1400 Array) and probably due to the surrounding circuitry, not the AKM chip. Had I known about ASR at the time, I'd have probably shipped it to Amir for testing as they're pretty small and light and there was a dearth of objective and subjective material on it (same was the case with the UD-501).

 

[C. Cook]

@Trell replied but only via email and "limits their visibility" https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?members/trell.31900/

Here's what they said:

You are just making stuff up as you go and start doing the same in another RME thread.

That version was released in November 2019 and RME had a press release which you can find under the News section. Since you claim to own or have owned a RME unit I trust you can find that, or perhaps not.


https://rme-audio.com/files/downloads/Media-Material/AG_RME_ADI-2_DAC_Press_information.pdf

Oh boy! I was wrong again (tell my wife!) on another audiophile thread. So RME did put out a press release. But guess what @Trell - RME didn't fucking send the memo to their resellers and their resellers *continued selling the RME ADI-2 as though nothing had changed despite the obvious and stated improvements*...get back to me either privately or in this thread if that doesn't hit home for you. 'N you got me, bud. I've never owned any RME products.

 

[storing]

Yes, that's about the same level I listen at for moderate volumes. For loud, depending on program material, I'll sometimes go as high as -25 dB irrespective of the other settings.

Such numbers don't mean much, if anything at all. How this translates to sound pressure level depends on the ref level the DAC uses and the amplification and sensitivity of what comes after it.

 

[nagster]

My only real point to start off this conversation was that well before the fire at the AKM plant, RME had already swapped the DAC chip with one that has a higher model number into the ADI-2 and not publicized it.

The use of the AK4493 was not a secret from the beginning.
RME has posted the use of AK4493 on its homepage from the start of V2 release.
And now we are posting the use of ES9028Q2M.

 

[C. Cook]

The use of the AK4493 was not a secret from the beginning.
RME has posted the use of AK4493 on its homepage from the start of V2 release.
And now we are posting the use of ES9028Q2M.

If you'd looked it was about the RME ADI-2 with a very specific setup. JBL 4349 and the RME acting as a preamp w/ Hypex nc1200 stereo amp. (also not responsible for replying to edited version of post)

 

[Trell]

@Trell replied but only via email and "limits their visibility" https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?members/trell.31900/

Here's what they said:

You are just making stuff up as you go and start doing the same in another RME thread.

That version was released in November 2019 and RME had a press release which you can find under the News section. Since you claim to own or have owned a RME unit I trust you can find that, or perhaps not.


https://rme-audio.com/files/downloads/Media-Material/AG_RME_ADI-2_DAC_Press_information.pdf

Oh boy! I was wrong again (tell my wife!) on another audiophile thread. So RME did put out a press release. But guess what @Trell - RME didn't fucking send the memo to their resellers and their resellers *continued selling the RME ADI-2 as though nothing had changed despite the obvious and stated improvements*...get back to me either privately or in this thread if that doesn't hit home for you. 'N you got me, bud. I've never owned any RME products.

I removed the post as the link was given above and I could have recalled wrongly that you owned RME units. I also getting a little tired of this.

So, you got the email because of the forum software sent you a notification, and not that I sent you an email or private message.

 

[Veri]

Welp, that was easy. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/rme-changes-dac-chip.24736/

Most of that post is related to post-fire chip swapping and comparing the ESS9028 (I thought they used the 9038 now?), but he does say the following:

"The ADI-2 DAC was initially based on an AK4490, later on the AK4493." and I don't know if RME has said why they did that. But again, probably for a good reason, no?

No. ESS9028Q2M.

Yes, for a good reason; AK4490 was being phased out. Then the factory fire happened and most things are being phased out. RME is just staying ahead on parts. Any big brand will have a note somewhere that some parts can be changed for an equivalent. Basic supply chain things..

 

[SIY]

But overall, if we compare chips with their modulator in play PCM inputs. AKM is less smooth and rounded off than TI chips, being more in the middle in this respect, Wolfson (now owned by Cirrus) is also similar. ESS has it's typical "on your face" flavor, with some hardness, more like Cirrus Logic.

Evidence of this extraordinary claim?

 

[Miska]

Evidence of this extraordinary claim?

As usual for anything subjective, you need to collect statistics from the subjective reports. So far you have couple of similar reports on this forum.

Mine is based on listening some of the tens of different DACs I own and have built.

 

[SIY]

As usual for anything subjective, you need to collect statistics from the subjective reports. So far you have couple of similar reports on this forum.

Mine is based on listening some of the tens of different DACs I own and have built.

OK, so no actual evidence, just story-telling.

 

[storing]

Not many would be happy if they ordered 2.0 litre petrol and got 1.5 litre diesel instead

This analogy is quite far off, since those 2 engines are obviously different in a variety of aspects. Even a blind test would pick it out immediately because they sound so different The behavior is also quite different while driving. And even if you don't notice any of that, you'll notice quickly enough if it stops running because you used the wrong fuel.

Whereas for those 2 DAC chips no matter what music you fuel them with, you're going to have a very hard time distinguishing their sound. Or how they handle in the final product. Etc.

 

[Hapo]

...I got swayed by this...is this somehing I missed on this thread...???...

...this guy is pretty hard o the RME...and audio forums...