How to make music in my small basement same as mark levinson in my car , and whats the next upgrade step after kef r3? bookshelves.

[aarons915]

I think you may be misunderstanding how the preference scores work.

The difference between how my band sounds in the local bar that's nothing but brick walls and tile floors, and how my band sounds in the club with some carpeting, tables, and extensive room treatment, is night and day.

Well no offense to your band but I've heard some of the best musicians in the world in small venues with no amplification and they sounded amazing. The research I've seen also shows that most people prefer reflections as long as they closely match the direct sound, room treatments dull the reflections and will reduce the subjective sound quality for the average listener.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Well no offense to your band but I've heard some of the best musicians in the world in small venues with no amplification and they sounded amazing. The research I've seen also shows that most people prefer reflections as long as they closely match the direct sound, room treatments dull the reflections and will reduce the subjective sound quality for the average listener.

"With no amplification" is kind of a key thing you left out of your previous comment.

No one is talking about a padded room on anechoic chamber. Very few spaces are not improved by adding some properly-placed absorbers and diffusers. I don't know what research you're reading that suggests otherwise, but either you're misinterpreting it or it's wrong.

 

[Sancus]

Why does every other thread about speaker recommendations have to turn into a "but room treatment" argument anyway? IMO it's insulting to the OPs. If they wanted advice about room treatment, they'd ask for that.

i can only guess i dont understand them very well...

my car is lacking dirac.
car speakers are 6.5" most of them, and at home i have 2 bookshelve speakers and none of them have even 6.5" speaker/driver unit so more speakers at car and even crappy they make better sound.. are these Philharmonic BMRs better than kef r3?? in the charts kef r3 is very much on top.

Also some cars have sound insulation - better sound insulation etcs, at home i got 000 sound insulation.

Don't focus too much on the score. The margin of error is basically 0.8 points(it's more complex than that, but it's not important). There are factors not considered by the score as well. There's nothing wrong with the Kef R3 -- they're good -- but the dispersion width is a matter of preference.

If you are used to multi-channel systems, they generally have a lot more envelopment than stereo. So I think you want as much as you can get, and the only way to achieve that with stereo speakers is wide dispersion and plenty of reflections.

The BMRs were reviewed on Erin's site and came out quite well. For this use case, I think they are a good option. There is no such thing as "best" for every use case.

The Kef LS60 wireless are also excellent. They should fit restrictive spaces, they're pretty narrow. They don't have as wide dispersion but their woofer arrangement will probably provide better mid-bass quality in an untreated room.

 

[alex-z]

95% of the magic in modern car audio is the DSP. How you integrate the drivers and time align them at the listeners ears is far more crucial than the quality or number of the drivers. Your vehicle having 17 drivers is pretty much irrelevant.

The same is true for home audio. You will find it virtually impossible to surpass the KEF R3, for any amount of money. No speaker is perfect, but in terms of quality engineering, they check all the right boxes. Maybe you prefer something with a narrower radiation pattern, but that is different, not better.

What I would strongly recommend is adding 2 subwoofers, acoustic treatment for your room, and a DSP unit to do bass integration. It is staggering how detailed the sound becomes when you have bass extension down to 20Hz, and fast decay times. It is also relatively affordable, if you don't mind some DIY work. You can build a pair of good subs for $800-1000, and $300-500 gets you enough materials for some large bass traps + side wall absorption. A miniDSP 2x4HD is $225, measurement mic is $75.

If you don't understand how much bass + acoustic treatment matters, go play your speakers in an open field. Everything above 300-400Hz will sound incredible, but below that, the lack of bass and mid-bass will ruin the realism.

 

[Galliardist]

hi everyone, i wonder how i can make my music sound like lexus gs mark levinson which have 17 speakers in the car.

MARK LEVINSON AUDIO SYSTEM
> Five Unity Extended Bandwidth speakers (two speakers in each: a 90 mm midrange and 16 mm tweeter)

> Two 180 x 250 mm HiE woofers with aramid composite cones and neodymium magnets

> Two 25 mm titanium dome tweeters with neodymium magnets

> Two 170 mm HiE midwoofers

> One 250 mm double opposing magnet subwoofer with aramid composite cones

> Plus: an 835-watt Class D DSP amplifier

here is the specs.



I want to achieve same or better stage at home, i have limited space so i will be using bookshelves only i am currently with kef r3
whats my next step of upgrade as a source i use my computer and i also recently order nad m33, which is not yet arrived with me.

Back when you asked your first question here, I gave you a detailed answer. One of the points I made, you might remember, is that people in rigorous tests preferred surround systems, like your car system, to stereo systems, and that when starting out in home audio, people need to consider getting a surround system.

I also said that you have to consider what you are buying now on its own terms. It's not a Muso, it's not a surround car system.

It seems to me that you come here, asking a lot of questions, expecting a one line "eureka" answer, and you haven't had one. Finally, allow me:

You will not make a desktop stereo system sound like a surround car system, and if you expect the immersive effect of that car audio system, you are going to need a surround home system.

Now you've had that answer and I'm sure you don't like it. So where do you go, from where you are now?

Well, you've rejected the idea of changing your room on cost grounds. I do slightly wonder when you live in a small basement flat but apparently have two expensive cars full of high end car audio gear, but I don't know or care about your priorities. Possibly your job involves you being on the road a lot, or your number one hobby is driving. All good.

And, of course, making your most important life decisions around getting a good audio system is not a sound (pun sort of intended) practice.

So, either you change the layout of where you live to include a surround system - or you move - or you learn about stereo and good desktop audio.

Next point - that Mark Levinson system in your car is not just a collection of speakers. It's been specifically designed and fitted into the car. It's value is more in how it is set up and what it does, than the components. You have the combined resources of the Lexus interior designers and Harman expertise put into how it is designed and what it does.
Your Muso in a way is similar. You have designers and engineers employed by Naim to make something that sounds good when it is just plonked down somewhere.

Note that with your NAD and KEF components, you haven't got that - you are on your own, and you have to do the work to make it sound as best it can.

And - the car audio system is, well, a car audio system. It is designed not for the best in high fidelity, but to allow you to hear the main features of the music over the sound of the car engine, of the air passing over the car at speed, the sound of the wheels on the road, all that noise that you get when driving (that's probably also been reduced in the design of the car compared to others to start with). You're mostly listening while driving, so you are hearing the music as a secondary activity to concentrating on the road most of the time. So your experience is different to when you listen intently in the home as well. Remember what I and others pointed out about listening intently being the value here?

So forget this question of yours. RIght now, it's the wrong one. The thing to do for the moment is to concentrate on what you have already bought - the M33 and the R3s - and making the best you can with them. Before you go further with this, you have to decide whether they can do at least some of what you are looking for.
If you can't get them to work for you - so you enjoy listening intently to them - in the setup you say you are limited to, it's unlikely that upgrading your speakers to Reference 1, or any of the other contenders (you can pay a lot more if you want) is going to work magic in comparison.

There is a third option, which is to get a good headphone system. I'd guess there are quite a lot of people on this forum, in situations like yours, that have done precisely that. It can give you some degree of that immersion as well. Maybe you should get yourself to a decent shop - I know, they do seem like the Monty Python Cheeseshop! - and listen to a good pair of headphones for comparison sometime soon. But the main thing is to make they R3s work and see how you feel about them then.

Again, good luck. Hope the M33 turns up soon and you can get going on things.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

Back when you asked your first question here, I gave you a detailed answer. One of the points I made, you might remember, is that people in rigorous tests preferred surround systems, like your car system, to stereo systems, and that when starting out in home audio, people need to consider getting a surround system.

I also said that you have to consider what you are buying now on its own terms. It's not a Muso, it's not a surround car system.

It seems to me that you come here, asking a lot of questions, expecting a one line "eureka" answer, and you haven't had one. Finally, allow me:

You will not make a desktop stereo system sound like a surround car system, and if you expect the immersive effect of that car audio system, you are going to need a surround home system.

Now you've had that answer and I'm sure you don't like it. So where do you go, from where you are now?

Well, you've rejected the idea of changing your room on cost grounds. I do slightly wonder when you live in a small basement flat but apparently have two expensive cars full of high end car audio gear, but I don't know or care about your priorities. Possibly your job involves you being on the road a lot, or your number one hobby is driving. All good.

And, of course, making your most important life decisions around getting a good audio system is not a sound (pun sort of intended) practice.

So, either you change the layout of where you live to include a surround system - or you move - or you learn about stereo and good desktop audio.

Next point - that Mark Levinson system in your car is not just a collection of speakers. It's been specifically designed and fitted into the car. It's value is more in how it is set up and what it does, than the components. You have the combined resources of the Lexus interior designers and Harman expertise put into how it is designed and what it does.
Your Muso in a way is similar. You have designers and engineers employed by Naim to make something that sounds good when it is just plonked down somewhere.

Note that with your NAD and KEF components, you haven't got that - you are on your own, and you have to do the work to make it sound as best it can.

And - the car audio system is, well, a car audio system. It is designed not for the best in high fidelity, but to allow you to hear the main features of the music over the sound of the car engine, of the air passing over the car at speed, the sound of the wheels on the road, all that noise that you get when driving (that's probably also been reduced in the design of the car compared to others to start with). You're mostly listening while driving, so you are hearing the music as a secondary activity to concentrating on the road most of the time. So your experience is different to when you listen intently in the home as well. Remember what I and others pointed out about listening intently being the value here?

So forget this question of yours. RIght now, it's the wrong one. The thing to do for the moment is to concentrate on what you have already bought - the M33 and the R3s - and making the best you can with them. Before you go further with this, you have to decide whether they can do at least some of what you are looking for.
If you can't get them to work for you - so you enjoy listening intently to them - in the setup you say you are limited to, it's unlikely that upgrading your speakers to Reference 1, or any of the other contenders (you can pay a lot more if you want) is going to work magic in comparison.

There is a third option, which is to get a good headphone system. I'd guess there are quite a lot of people on this forum, in situations like yours, that have done precisely that. It can give you some degree of that immersion as well. Maybe you should get yourself to a decent shop - I know, they do seem like the Monty Python Cheeseshop! - and listen to a good pair of headphones for comparison sometime soon. But the main thing is to make they R3s work and see how you feel about them then.

Again, good luck. Hope the M33 turns up soon and you can get going on things.

One of my car is classical car, for which i got loan many years ago, its not expensive i bought it for 600 euro back then and i invested more than 10.000 euro for audio gear.

2nd car is also a loaner.
more recent loaner.

my classical car have 4 speakers 2 front 2 rear + 2 tweeters + 1 sub and it sound amazing better than mark levinson.... but gear inside is expensive.
for the most couple of years i dont drive a lot, i can drive around 100 miles per week, most of the time. i simply preffer high end quality music.


i use to own good pair of headphones which i have sold them back then i use to own senhaiser hd series ,
so basicly i invested in my cars more for audio gear than cars it self.

 

[Jimbob54]

Did you pay someone to set up your car audio properly or just chuck 10k of equipment in there? I suppose many here would wonder how the experience you have with car audio doesn't seem to have transferred to domestic audio

 

[Deleted member 51459]

Did you pay someone to set up your car audio properly or just chuck 10k of equipment in there? I suppose many here would wonder how the experience you have with car audio doesn't seem to have transferred to domestic audio

hello i have payed multiple times/ people to set up the equipment.

 

[DJNX]

OP, I think what you like about your car audio is the acoustics.
I would instead invest all that money into acoustic panels and then get another pair of KEF R3 to upmix with Dolby Surround.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

OP, I think what you like about your car audio is the acoustics.
I would instead invest all that money into acoustic panels and then get another pair of KEF R3 to upmix with Dolby Surround.

what do you mean accoustic sound insolation , i cant do that in my current rented basemant, i am in rent it will take a years to buy my own home...
i will need to have half a million saved at least.

 

[DJNX]

what do you mean accoustic sound insolation , i cant do that in my current rented basemant, i am in rent it will take a years to buy my own home...
i will need to have half a million saved at least.

Sound isolation certainly is a big part of what you like about your car audio, however I mean more specifically the acoustic "deadness". While a car is not exactly ideal for sound (mostly because of all the glass), it’s still miles better than the vast majority of rooms, specially compared to small rooms.

I’m not saying that you should modify your room for sound isolation. I am talking about treating your room acoustically. That means taming the reflections and echo in your room. For that you can just hang acoustic panels on the walls.
If you can’t hang them because it’s a rental, you can even just lean the panels on the walls.

In a car, with all the noise isolation and its acoustic deadness, you hear mostly the direct sound of the speakers. In your room you are most likely hearing a lot of the reflections from walls and room modes in the lower frequencies.

 

[Deleted member 51459]

Sound isolation certainly is a big part of what you like about your car audio, however I mean more specifically the acoustic "deadness". While a car is not exactly ideal for sound (mostly because of all the glass), it’s still miles better than the vast majority of rooms, specially compared to small rooms.

I’m not saying that you should modify your room for sound isolation. I am talking about treating your room acoustically. That means taming the reflections and echo in your room. For that you can just hang acoustic panels on the walls.
If you can’t hang them because it’s a rental, you can even just lean the panels on the walls.

In a car, with all the noise isolation and its acoustic deadness, you hear mostly the direct sound of the speakers. In your room you are most likely hearing a lot of the reflections from walls and room modes in the lower frequencies.

But i was thinking that Dirac can help with that?

 

[AdamG]

If you want to mimic the audio experience of a car. You need to work with the same room size/volume of the listening space. This is about as close as you can get without building a car in your basement.

Just took a chance with TigerFox Immerse 360

I have long been a fan of crosstalk cancellation in principle but have generally found the electronic methods to be unnatural and fatiguing. I took a flyer with the TigerFox hoping that it offers a more natural and involving experience — plus it comes with a 60 day satisfaction guarantee. I’ll...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Deleted member 51459]

View attachment 233175

Just took a chance with TigerFox Immerse 360

I have long been a fan of crosstalk cancellation in principle but have generally found the electronic methods to be unnatural and fatiguing. I took a flyer with the TigerFox hoping that it offers a more natural and involving experience — plus it comes with a 60 day satisfaction guarantee. I’ll...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It looks like scam to me.

 

[DJNX]

But i was thinking that Dirac can help with that?

Dirac should help.
If you really want to improve your audio at home and be more like your car, it’s pretty simple:

-Buy two more speakers for surround. If space is a concern, small speakers like the KEF Q150 should suffice.
-Buy two 4" acoustic panels. Hang them or just place them. (Don’t get the small squared ones, get them at 24*48)
-Buy a 10" subwoofer.
-After all of that, apply Dirac.
-Listen to music upmixed.

Those two panels, if strategical placed, should create an audible difference. Then you can consider two more panels.

Consider the room itself as a speaker of its own. If you don’t do anything to tweak it, your results will always be half-done.

 

[Jimbob54]

I also worry if OP listens nice and loud in the cars, that's going to be hard to reproduce in a small rented flat presumably with close neighbours that wouldn't appreciate those SPL through thin walls /floors.

 

[Laserjock]

Maybe see how it sounds once you get your NAD and have it set up. ?

Then you can go from there.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Some including me recommended an AVR already some 4 weeks ago. That would have given you the key component to surround sound similar to your car.

The rest you pretty much asked and got answers to: (see your own threads).

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[tw 2022]

If you want to mimic the audio experience of a car. You need to work with the same room size/volume of the listening space. This is about as close as you can get without building a car in your basement.

View attachment 233175

Just took a chance with TigerFox Immerse 360

I have long been a fan of crosstalk cancellation in principle but have generally found the electronic methods to be unnatural and fatiguing. I took a flyer with the TigerFox hoping that it offers a more natural and involving experience — plus it comes with a 60 day satisfaction guarantee. I’ll...

www.audiosciencereview.com

that device is amazing , the clarity and fidelity to go along with the crazy good soundstage is very unique...

 

[Joe Smith]

This new thread every three days about your ever-rethought system seems pretty pointless to me. Get your new amp and connect them to your KEFs, and enjoy for awhile. You will need a better listening room and speaker stands for best effect. You are not in a standalone house, so this ongoing push to more power and more speakers...it's just silly. Your poor neighbors, I hope they survive this.

Your budget is apparently allowing you to purchase some very high end equipment that I can only dream of, not because I don't have savings, but because I have a audio budget that I stick to, balanced with other life needs.

The world economy seems to be in very poor shape...save some nuts for a rainy day.