PC enthusiasts, sanity check my new PC please

[Count Arthur]

Problems:

1. The system used 110W with display at idle in Windows and Linux. I went into the firmware and activated an eco mode, it seems to restrict the CPU to 45W TDP or something like it. I did the same for the display, activated a power saving mode. Idle power usage went down to 70W for computer and display.

Todo:
3. The AMD boxed fan is loud. I need to look for something better. The case fans are loud as well, again, i need to look into silent fans.

1. 110W sounds about right. For comparison my system:

CPU: AMD 5800X
Full size X570 ATX motherboard with onboard Wi-Fi
GPU: Redeon 5700XT
3 x NvME SSD drives
4 x 8GB RAM
3 x 120mm fans and 5 x 140mm fans including the CPU cooler fans
Corsair 750W PSU

The power settings are as default, I haven't changed them, and using one of those plug in power monitors just the PC, without the monitor, uses around 120W.

No doubt all those fans, although they spin quite slowly, ~800rpm at idle, will use a fair amount of power.


3. Noctua fans are good, they are more expensive than other brands, but they are quiet, for a given speed, and very long lasting. Having said that, the three Fractal fans that came with my case seem pretty good too, no complaints.


Rather than trying to reduce the power requirements of my main system I bought a second, low power, system to use when I don't need all the bells and whistles: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../fan-less-silent-pc.41114/page-5#post-1476386

The mini PC uses just 15 to 20W, while browsing the the web, listening to music, etc.

 

[Berwhale]

For comparison, my older PC...

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB
RAM: 32GB
Disk: 1TB NVMe
Corsair AIO CPU cooler + 4x 120mm Noctua fans with digital controller (fans all run at 500rpm in normal use)
Screen: Philips WQHD 34"

Power draw is sitting around 120 watts according to my APC UPS, it costs me just under £1 per day...

Noctua Redux fans are a bit cheaper than the 'standard' beige and brown ones (the Redux fans are 'bare' and don't come with silicon mounts, cable adaptes, etc.)...

Noctua

Noctua's premium fans are internationally renowned for their superb quietness, exceptional performance and thoroughgoing quality.

noctua.at

The Noctua NA-FC1 fan controller is an excellent little widget to get your fans running as slowly (and quietly) as possible...

NA-FC1

The NA-FC1 is a compact, highly flexible controller for 4-pin PWM fans that can both work on its own for manual speed reduction and also work in tandem with the automatic motherboard fan control. By adjusting the NA-FC1’s speed control dial, users can either manually set a PWM duty cycle from 0...

noctua.at

 

[TheBatsEar]

But AMD is known to have the best (amdgpu) driver for Linux out there... You are talking utter nonsense.

If this is the regular OSS kernel driver, then i use it, numbers look good enough for now:

and the same in windows? GPU can eat watts for breakfast, more so with 4k monitor and probably more so in Linux. Why throttle the CPU though? I bet by limiting TDP you reduce its processing power considerably.

Only under load, it seems. While working with Linux i almost never have load, and that is the most time i spend.
I will look for a way to disable the ECO mode in Windows during games though.

AMD says the ECO mode will drop the energy usage down to 46% during idle (also -10°C during idle) and the processing power to 88%. Seems like a fair tradeoff for desktop work.

Here someone showed where it is found in ASRock firmware:

It'd be interesting to know how the monitor is operating in eco mode, what is it doing to reduce power usage and does it affect the image.

It gets a bit darker and the contrast a bit lower, i don't mind, it's ok during the day and actually nice when it's dark.

Is that at total idle or in typical use (browsers open, word processor and so on)? Perhaps better than recording wattage at idle would be to get an average reading for a days typical use.

It is, basically my programs open, but not doing anything, i will have to look into how to measure it differently.

Have you implemented fan curves?

The firmware has an option to calibrate your fans, it basically looks at how slow they are able to run at what voltages. IT then sets up a curve based on your values. They have presets like silents, regular, cool, i have set it to silent. Still not happy.

it spins high RPM (1700) and neads to go high RPM in order to keep it mild hot (not hot as hell like Intel bundled one's) under load. He neads a deacent cooler in order to do job quiet enough and with good colling results.

I'm afraid so, yes. Even with the silent preset, the CPU fan never stops, despite activating it in the firmware.

110W sounds about right.

Check out the ECO mode in the firmware, i think it's worth the time to give it a go. Helped me down to 70W.
Mind you, mine is always with display measured.
My monthly energy bill is 92€.

Corsair AIO CPU

It's on my list of cooling options, still not decided, didn't have time to look into it.
Thanks about mentioning the Redux line, didn't know, i don't need all that extra stuff.

 

[Digby]

IT then sets up a curve based on your values

can you set your own curves? something like 800rpm until 65c CPU temp then a slope up to max speed at 85c.

 

[Count Arthur]

The Noctua NA-FC1 fan controller is an excellent little widget to get your fans running as slowly (and quietly) as possible...

NA-FC1

The NA-FC1 is a compact, highly flexible controller for 4-pin PWM fans that can both work on its own for manual speed reduction and also work in tandem with the automatic motherboard fan control. By adjusting the NA-FC1’s speed control dial, users can either manually set a PWM duty cycle from 0...

noctua.at

Do you need that? The last couple of motherboards I've had have had some form of fan controller built in. The software always seems to be fairly "janky", but once set up, you can pretty much forget it. My current MB has this crummy Windows app and there's a similar screen in the BIOS. The software labels don't seem to match the fan headers properly, but you can make it work.

Just looking at my GPU, it seems it uses as much power, even when just doing desktop stuff as the whole mini PC I mentioned earlier.

 

[digitalfrost]

Just use this software, at least for windows...

GitHub - Rem0o/FanControl.Releases: This is the release repository for Fan Control, a highly customizable fan controlling software for Windows.

This is the release repository for Fan Control, a highly customizable fan controlling software for Windows. - Rem0o/FanControl.Releases

github.com

Mine setup like this:

 

[ZolaIII]

Thing is Ryzen architecture is chiplet. Infinite fabric works all the time and such about 20~22 W and CCX additional 17 or more (depending of S state) in idle. But it sucks lot less than Intel under load. You can undervolt it and OC it at the same time so that it doesn't eat more power under load and have some more performance (when you get a normal cooler of course).

ClockTuner for Ryzen (CTR) v2.1 RC5 Download

Download ClockTuner for Ryzen (CTR), Guru3D is the official download partner for this handy utility that can possibly boost ZEN2 processor performance on your PC....

www.guru3d.com

Fan Control is nice for Windows.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Just looking at my GPU, it seems it uses as much power, even when just doing desktop stuff as the whole mini PC I mentioned earlier.

21W looks like a lot for the GPU in idle. I think you can do better.
With the bad mainboard i had different power usage with different screen refresh rates. With 60 and 144 Hz it was 6W, with 120 and 176Hz it was three times as much. This problem was gone with the new mainboard.

 

[ZolaIII]

21W looks like a lot for the GPU in idle. I think you can do better.
With the bad mainboard i had different power usage with different screen refresh rates. With 60 and 144 Hz it was 6W, with 120 and 176Hz it was three times as much. This problem was gone with the new mainboard.

That's because it's not in idle but rendering the app (GPU acceleration).

 

[Berwhale]

Do you need that? The last couple of motherboards I've had have had some form of fan controller built in. The software always seems to be fairly "janky", but once set up, you can pretty much forget it. My current MB has this crummy Windows app and there's a similar screen in the BIOS. The software labels don't seem to match the fan headers properly, but you can make it work.

From the NA-FC1 page...

"...and also work in tandem with the automatic motherboard fan control."

Yes, I use SIV as well, this is the fan on my Corsair H60 AIO Radiator...

Two front fans + top fan...

'CPU Fan' is the H60 pump, but still running at 1/2 speed...

My PC is very quiet. It helps that it's in a acoustically damped case (Coolermaster Silencio 352) and it sits under a 40mm solid beech worktop.

 

[Count Arthur]

That's because it's not in idle but rendering the app (GPU acceleration).

Here it is monitored outside its own app:

I'm guessing I could mess about with some settings and shave a few watts off, but given that the whole mini PC uses between a third and a half what just the CPU and GPU are using, I'm not going to be able to get anywhere near as low power as that.

HWiNFO: https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

 

[Count Arthur]

From the NA-FC1 page...

"...and also work in tandem with the automatic motherboard fan control."

Yes, I use SIV as well, this is the fan on my Corsair H60 AIO Radiator...

View attachment 263626

Two front fans...

View attachment 263627

'CPU Fan' is the H60 pump, but still running at 1/2 speed...

View attachment 263629

My PC is very quiet. It helps that it's in a acoustically damped case (Coolermaster Silencio 352) and it sits under a 40mm solid beech worktop.

Do you find it a bit janky as well? Having said that it may have been updated since I last used it, when I tried it a short while ago, it didn't seem as bad as I remember.

The BIOS update utilitly is still garbage though, I've never got that to work, I always have to download it manually and update it in BIOS.

 

[Berwhale]

Thanks about mentioning the Redux line, didn't know, i don't need all that extra stuff.

They nice with matching silicone mounts

BTW - The fan on the radiator is a Noctua Chromex, which is more expensive than the beige/brown ones. I'm not entirely sure why I ended up with that one, it may be that the right fan flow pattern wasn't available in the Redux models in 2018 (this is also an old photo, the SATA SSD is gone and the cabling has been tidied up a bit!)

 

[Berwhale]

Do you find it a bit janky as well? Having said that it may have been updated since I last used it, when I tried it a short while ago, it didn't seem as bad as I remember.

The BIOS update utilitly is still garbage though, I've never got that to work, I always have to download it manually and update it in BIOS.

It is a bit janky. I'm quite careful to save my fan profiles after fettling them because it's easy to accidentally trip an auto calibration and loose them all. Gigabyte's auto software update is also pants. I usually go and find the latest versions from their website.

 

[Berwhale]

Just use this software, at least for windows...

GitHub - Rem0o/FanControl.Releases: This is the release repository for Fan Control, a highly customizable fan controlling software for Windows.

This is the release repository for Fan Control, a highly customizable fan controlling software for Windows. - Rem0o/FanControl.Releases

github.com

Mine setup like this:

View attachment 263593

Nice software. I have set it up and will have a play with it later...

 

[ZolaIII]

@Count Arthur I use Aida64 (engineer edition back from the days I actually worked in the branch). Of course desktop chip will use lot more power than an U mobile one even at idle. Only cuple W on CPU CCX and for a bit of responsiveness (active idle vs suspended state [S1, S2]) so not really worth it.
Best regards and have fun.

 

[AnalogSteph]

My PC is very quiet. It helps that it's in a acoustically damped case (Coolermaster Silencio 352) and it sits under a 40mm solid beech worktop.

That case is a bit awkward, cooling wise. Granted, it's a nigh decade-old Micro-ATX affair, but the front-mounted 240 mm radiator support is all a bit pointless if you almost can't mount an AIO without the pump ending up at pretty much the highest point in the system (= pump death). I'm not normally a big fan of 120 mm AIOs (the reliability of an AIO with the cooling performance of a decent air cooler), but here it seems one of the few sensible options. Air coolers with <155 mm of height and a 120 mm fan do, however, exist as well (e.g. Thermalright Macho 120 rev B, Noctua NH-D12L).

Funny thing is, looks like my Fractal Define R5 has pretty much the same AIO mounting issue. Good thing I went with air cooling then (NH-U14S, ~225 rpm at idle).
EDIT: I forgot about the top-mounting radiator options, duh. You can also take out the 5.25" drive cage.

 

[Berwhale]

That case is a bit awkward, cooling wise. Granted, it's a nigh decade-old Micro-ATX affair, but the front-mounted 240 mm radiator support is all a bit pointless if you almost can't mount an AIO without the pump ending up at pretty much the highest point in the system (= pump death). I'm not normally a big fan of 120 mm AIOs (the reliability of an AIO with the cooling performance of a decent air cooler), but here it seems one of the few sensible options. Air coolers with <155 mm of height and a 120 mm fan do, however, exist as well (e.g. Thermalright Macho 120 rev B, Noctua NH-D12L).

Agreed. I know that decent air cooler would have been cheaper and just as quiet, but i'd been water cooling my PCs for over 15 years when I built this one and it felt weird to go back to air! (I still have a box of custom WC paraphernalia in the garage - Eheim pumps, tubing, barbs, custom blocks and fancy Perspex reservoirs, etc.)

 

[Count Arthur]

Agreed. I know that decent air cooler would have been cheaper and just as quiet, but i'd been water cooling my PCs for over 15 years when I built this one and it felt weird to go back to air! (I still have a box of custom WC paraphernalia in the garage - Eheim pumps, tubing, barbs, custom blocks and fancy Perspex reservoirs, etc.)

A few years back I had a very custom watercooled set-up, complete with Danger Den waterblocks: http://www.ninjalane.com/reviews/cooling/dangerden-rbx

This was before there were all-in-ones or kits, so the whole set-up was a bit heath robinson.

I had three water blocks, one for the CPU, one for the GPU and one for the North Bridge (remember those? ). I made 2 manifolds, an inlet and outlet, so that each waterblock was fed in parellel, rather than in series. I had a large Eheim? aquarium pump, and I used a radiator from an Austin Mini, for which I made a shroud that fitted 4 x 120mm fans. The pump was 240v, so I had to rig up a relay, to turn it on when the system powered up. The pump, manifolds and radiator and fans were outside the case, with the coolant tubes running throug a cut-out in the side panel. As such, it was a sight to behold , and not particularly quiet, but it was pretty effective, even pushed to the maximum, the CPU would barely get 10 celclius over ambient even when overclocked.

When larger and better air coolers became available, I gave up on watercooling. I now have a Noctua air cooler, it's commically large and makes it awkward to get to some things on the motherbard, but it is cool and quiet.

Not my PC, but you can see how little room there is around the cooler for getting to RAM modules, fan headers etc.

I also don't bother overclocking any more, with modern CPUs, that boost clocks automattically when necessary and if cool enough, there doesn't seem to be much benefit. Whereas I ran an Intel i5-2500K overclocked from 3.3GHz to 4.3GHz for 9 years. Heaven alone knows how much power that used.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I know that decent air cooler would have been cheaper and just as quiet, but i'd been water cooling my PCs for over 15 years when I built this one and it felt weird to go back to air! (I still have a box of custom WC paraphernalia in the garage - Eheim pumps, tubing, barbs, custom blocks and fancy Perspex reservoirs, etc.)

That's a bummer you went with a "pleb spec" AIO then, a custom loop would have been the one way to actually accommodate a 240mm radiator. Oh well.

The crux of the matter is, for low thermal loads air cooling is actually even quieter, due to the lack of pump noise. (Having your pump in something that is hard-mounted to the CPU makes decoupling it just a tad difficult.) Besides, when you started doing water cooling, CPU air coolers still generally were solid chunks of metal with not a heatpipe in sight, equipped with smallish fans. There was a lot more motivation to go water back then.

My solution at the time was going very low power with passive cooling. I ran some underclocked / undervolted PIII-667EBs (500 MHz @ 1.5 V) on modified MSI 6905 Masters on an Asus P2B-D for quite a few years. It took me years before my PC's idle power consumption was that low again - low 40s with a Radeon 9000, a Deskstar T7K250 with foam decoupling, an LG burner, an Intel PRO/100 desktop something or other NIC and a pair of Terratec Aureon Sky / Space soundcards if memory serves. Either a 110 W Astec OEM PSU or a 250 W Fortron.