The comedy of some Hi res recordings

[March Audio]

Happened to take a look at a high res 192kHz track. Its Hazmat Modine. Luckily I didnt buy this at an inflated hi res price. Not sure of the source of the recording.
I do like the music though, it's a bit bonkers!

 

[Krunok]

Just look at that rich response north of RBCD..

 

[sergeauckland]

HiRes has been one of my bugbears for years.

Firstly, anything originally recorded on analogue tape with a S/N ratio of (at best) 70dB and a frequency response that's 3dB down at 20kHz as most studio machines are, can't be HiRes, however it's digitised.
Secondly, anything recorded with high quality large-diaphragm condenser microphones like Neumann or AKG won't have a frequency response much exceeding 18kHz, so won't be HiRes, whatever the sample rate.
Thirdly, even with a recent all-digital recording, using a wideband microphone or Direct Injection, exactly what signals of musical significance are there above 20kHz and below -90dB? Certainly there's the high frequency whistle from any SMPSs, wallwarts and the like, ditto with computer screens. There's fan noise from any computers and aircon, and there's traffic or aircraft rumble, there are also the musicians breathing, shuffling their feet, turning over pages of the score, but how are these musically significant?

To me, HiRes is a con, perpetrated on the music buying public to prop up the recording industry and/or to get more money out of the back catalogue. Just how many copies of DSOTM does anyone need?

There are good technical reasons for recording at 24 bit or higher and 96k sampling or higher, as the files are going to be processed and edited but none whatsoever for releasing a finished recording that way, except to con people into thinking they're better and so pay more.

S.

 

[Krunok]

HiRes has been one of my bugbears for years.

Firstly, anything originally recorded on analogue tape with a S/N ratio of (at best) 70dB and a frequency response that's 3dB down at 20kHz as most studio machines are, can't be HiRes, however it's digitised.
Secondly, anything recorded with high quality large-diaphragm condenser microphones like Neumann or AKG won't have a frequency response much exceeding 18kHz, so won't be HiRes, whatever the sample rate.
Thirdly, even with a recent all-digital recording, using a wideband microphone or Direct Injection, exactly what signals of musical significance are there above 20kHz and below -90dB? Certainly there's the high frequency whistle from any SMPSs, wallwarts and the like, ditto with computer screens. There's fan noise from any computers and aircon, and there's traffic or aircraft rumble, there are also the musicians breathing, shuffling their feet, turning over pages of the score, but how are these musically significant?

To me, HiRes is a con, perpetrated on the music buying public to prop up the recording industry and/or to get more money out of the back catalogue. Just how many copies of DSOTM does anyone need?

There are good technical reasons for recording at 24 bit or higher and 96k sampling or higher, as the files are going to be processed and edited but none whatsoever for releasing a finished recording that way, except to con people into thinking they're better and so pay more.

S.

You put it really well.

But then, if good old RBCD is all we need then do we indeed need DACs with SNR of 120dB and frequency response linear up to 90kHz?

 

[PierreV]

You put it really well.

But then, if good old RBCD is all we need then do we indeed need DACs with SNR of 120dB and frequency response linear up to 90kHz?

Emotional satisfaction. And don't forget the slightly shady deep Freudian tactile pleasure of being able to play with and massage thick, expensive interconnects

Seriously: as I climbed the ladder from standard stuff for the last 40 years to reach what - to my taste - I consider my personal audio nirvana, the most important thing, by far, is how the music was recorded and produced and CD quality is definitely enough to translate that.

 

[Krunok]

Seriously: as I climbed the ladder from standard stuff for the last 40 years to reach what - to my taste - I consider my personal audio nirvana, the most important thing, by far, is how the music was recorded and produced and CD quality is definitely enough to translate that.

Cannot agree more. Quality of recording always comes first followed by the quality of the speakers. And the electronic stuff.. well, that mistery has been solved some time ago so nothing much to talk about. It is however worth testing it just to check if manufacturers are doing the right thing but I wouldn't really raise much hype about it.

 

[Vincent Kars]

MusicScope is a nice tool indeed.
Couple of example on my website: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/AudioTools/Spectrum.htm

 

[sergeauckland]

You put it really well.

But then, if good old RBCD is all we need then do we indeed need DACs with SNR of 120dB and frequency response linear up to 90kHz?

No, I don't think we need DACs with 120dB of SNR, which is why I use whatever DAC is built in to the digital player as being 'good enough'. However, firstly it's difficult these days to get a bad DAC, and secondly as Pierre put it above, there's the emotional satisfaction of having such a DAC, but no, no actual need.

It's much the same in cars, do we need 0-60 times of under 5", or speeds of 150+ mph when the national speed limit is a LOT lower. Do we need to throw away clothes after one wearing, as we can't be seen twice with the same dress? Consumerism applies to audio just as it does to cars or fashion. We're a long way from the functionalist view of ownership of stuff that I would prefer, but then I'm not having to make a living selling stuff to people.

S

 

[Krunok]

No, I don't think we need DACs with 120dB of SNR, which is why I use whatever DAC is built in to the digital player as being 'good enough'. However, firstly it's difficult these days to get a bad DAC, and secondly as Pierre put it above, there's the emotional satisfaction of having such a DAC, but no, no actual need.

It's much the same in cars, do we need 0-60 times of under 5", or speeds of 150+ mph when the national speed limit is a LOT lower. Do we need to throw away clothes after one wearing, as we can't be seen twice with the same dress? Consumerism applies to audio just as it does to cars or fashion. We're a long way from the functionalist view of ownership of stuff that I would prefer, but then I'm not having to make a living selling stuff to people.

S

Ah, car analogies.. One has to love them as they are often good, but rarely perfect!

I have a car that is capable of easilly exceeding 150mph. Maybe once or twice a year, when I'm alone in the car and the autobahn is empty I allow myself a pleasure to press the pedal to the metal and I really enjoy seeing the tachometar needle rushing toward 175mph while everything else apart from center of the road gets blurred because of speed. And then I let it go, of course, because no sane man drives like that when not on a racing course. But for that short moment, yeah.. it WAS fun.

If I had a switch on my Topping D10 DAC which would allow me to crank THD down to 0.0002 from 0.0006 I don't think I would actually enjoy it, because I wouldn't notice anything.

 

[amirm]

I have done this kind of analysis before and some content is truely high-res. To the topic of this thread, I have also tested using MusicScope but not a big fan of it. Here is a video I published showing both full spectrum/high res music and issues:

 

[Ron Texas]

No, I don't think we need DACs with 120dB of SNR, which is why I use whatever DAC is built in to the digital player as being 'good enough'. However, firstly it's difficult these days to get a bad DAC, and secondly as Pierre put it above, there's the emotional satisfaction of having such a DAC, but no, no actual need.

It's much the same in cars, do we need 0-60 times of under 5", or speeds of 150+ mph when the national speed limit is a LOT lower. Do we need to throw away clothes after one wearing, as we can't be seen twice with the same dress? Consumerism applies to audio just as it does to cars or fashion. We're a long way from the functionalist view of ownership of stuff that I would prefer, but then I'm not having to make a living selling stuff to people.

S

Fast cars are not about needs. It's about wants. You would have to drive a car with a 0-60 time under four, not five to understand it. If all consumption was limited to needs we would be eating beans, living in tiny apartments and the economy would collapse. That was the dream of communism, and it failed.

 

[sergeauckland]

I have done this kind of analysis before and some content is truely high-res. To the topic of this thread, I have also tested using MusicScope but not a big fan of it. Here is a video I published showing both full spectrum/high res music and issues:

I have no doubt that some recordings capture higher frequencies than 20kHz, but so what? What actually is being captured of any musical value? SMPS noise or CPU or AC fan noise I suggest is probably best not captured.



S

 

[Blumlein 88]

I wouldn't complain too much if someone wants to go to 96 khz or 88 khz to move everything well out of the way of audible. Beyond that it doesn't make sense at all to me.

I've made some recordings at 48, 88, 96 and 192. The people who were recorded couldn't hear any difference. Two girls in their teens did hear 44.1 khz sample rates. This is when I downsampled from a 96 khz rate. So they may have been hearing the resampling software.

 

[sergeauckland]

Fast cars are not about needs. It's about wants. You would have to drive a car with a 0-60 time under four, not five to understand it. If all consumption was limited to needs we would be eating beans, living in tiny apartments and the economy would collapse. That was the dream of communism, and it failed.

I think what's wrong with the planet is so much about wants rather than needs. We all have to 'want' to keep consuming as mere 'needs' won't keep everyone in employment. Like hamsters on a wheel.

S

 

[Krunok]

Like hamsters on a wheel.
S

Speaking of that, I always wondered if hamsters would spin the wheel that much if you give them oportunity to have sex? Or are those two activities unrelated..?

 

[Ron Texas]

I think what's wrong with the planet is so much about wants rather than needs. We all have to 'want' to keep consuming as mere 'needs' won't keep everyone in employment. Like hamsters on a wheel.

S

Within limits we are free to consume less. Some poorly thought out regulatory schemes force us to buy more than we want.

 

[Blumlein 88]

One tenet of freedom is you should be free as long as what you do doesn't harm others or curtail their freedoms. In the modern world that turns into the equivalent of arguing about free will.

If I burn up resources today and global warming kills people in the future, was my freedom over the line? (and no don't ask me to answer that one)

 

[Krunok]

If I burn up resources today and global warming kills people in the future, was my freedom over the line? (and no don't ask me to answer that one)

That is simple - yes, it was.

 

[Ron Texas]

Atheists claim there is no free will.

 

[amirm]

I have no doubt that some recordings capture higher frequencies than 20kHz, but so what? What actually is being captured of any musical value?

It is the inverse of that. I don't want anyone to try to remove it.