Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

[Philbo King]

I suppose I'm a cantankerous, contrary curmudgeon and a bilious, ill-tempered old fart, but I disagree.

Somewhere back in the mists of time, I heard this anecdote. It more or less explains my attitude towards high-end audio.

Two people were discussing their militant neighbors. The first was pessimistic regarding a forthcoming war, the other optimistic. The optimist said, "Quit being so negative! You always judge things in such a negative light! You're most probably wrong!" The pessimist replied, "I'd rather be a pessimist and be proven wrong than an optimist and be proven wrong!"

As for astounding numbers of people with fringe beliefs, I must confess that I know quite a few people whose actions belie their words. Wasn't it attributed to Twain? ..... "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see."

Please don't take this to mean that I'm trying to get you to change your beliefs. I'm not. You have a right to them. I simply don't believe them the way you do.

Jim

The zen version of this (to explain why you should be able to fight if needed):
"I'd rather be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."

 

[SimpleTheater]

I wish Jay had solicited input before conducting this test. I would have for example, repeated the same track 10+ times and see the consistency in him guessing that one right with random switching of the cables.

The 2 hour video is not up yet so we need to wait to see that. We may get some answers there.

Either way, it was a good effort. Can't take that away from them.

Is the two hour video up yet? Been a couple of months and it would seem easier to put up a non-edited video than an edited video.

 

[amirm]

It is.

 

[ctrl]

Is the two hour video up yet? Been a couple of months and it would seem easier to put up a non-edited video than an edited video.

I would recommend to first listen to this nearly two year old video from Danny were he describes how easy it would be to identify a 12 gauge (3.3mm²) speaker cable from his own one. He says there that he can tell the difference immediately (snaps his fingers) and he would easily distinguish ten out of ten tests.

But in the "blind test" the normal cable was down to 16 gauge (1.3mm²) as stated in Jay's video. So a speaker cable that you normally get for free with the purchase of a speaker. This cable as OFC version will cost you about 0.1$ per ft.

Danny's own cable used in the "blind test":

This cable uses 24 separate, variable gauge, conductors in a counter rotating braid. The wire is high purity oxygen free Copper in polyethylene. Each leg of 12 wires makes an 8 gauge cable.

So the "blind test" is now about an 8 gauge (8.4mm²) OFC cable, against an 16 gauge (1.3mm²) cable (copper as Danny says, pure copper or with Al we don't know for sure). Based on what Danny says in the video and on his website. Danny's cable will cost you 13.75$ per ft.

If these two cables were measured, differences in the audible frequency range would be guaranteed. Of course, these measurements are withheld from us

Unfortunately, nothing is said about the tube amp used. The thin 16 gauge cable has higher resistance and induction than Danny's 8 gauge OFC cable - how much does the tube amp react to that (in combination with the speakers)? We will never know.

In any case, it's impressive that Danny was able to detect statistically relevant differences (8 out of 10).
But I think it dawns on everyone after watching the "blind test" video with Danny, that if they had used at least a 10 gauge (5.3mm²) copper cable for 2-4$ per ft for a little more fair comparison, the result of the "blind test" would have been completely different.

 

[Cbdb2]

Why are you wasting your time listening to an idiot? I would not believe anything that moron says. Half the stuff he says is plain wrong, so he's either a liar or deluded or both.

 

[RickS]

There is only brief showing of the cables. They are different gauge, lengths and use different connectors.

I have some of the banana plugs used on the cheaper cable and they cause a (distinct) scraping noise as that are connected. The tube connectors are not that abrasive. Would bet I could tell the difference 10/10 times without playing any music!

There should be NO credit given for attempting a blind test when the simplest conditions of a valid test are not met.

 

[ctrl]

Why are you wasting your time listening to an idiot? I would not believe anything that moron says. Half the stuff he says is plain wrong, so he's either a liar or deluded or both.

If someone new comes to the forum and is open to questioning "high end authorities" with wide reach in the community, then it is not enough to simply call these "authorities" idiots - this is likely to cause undecided people to turn away from the forum in disgust.

So if it's not obvious trolling, then you should try to explain to beginners and the inexperienced how the results were rigged to achieve the desired outcome.

I have some of the banana plugs used on the cheaper cable and they cause a scraping noise as that are connected. The tube connectors are not that abrasive. Would bet I could tell the difference 10/10 times without playing any music!
There should be NO credit given for attempting a blind test when the simplest conditions of a valid test are not met.

Have speculated about the not fair "blind test" under Jay's video as well (see below). But speculation is not proof, so until evidence shows otherwise, I'm assuming Danny could possibly hear the differences in this rigged demonstration.

If Danny was able to differ the "plugin sound" of the connectors, he would certainly have taken a normal 8 gauge speaker cable (and not a thin 16 gauge) to demonstrate how superior his own cable is, which he was obviously incapable of doing and therefore used the thin 16 gauge cable.

 

[RickS]

If someone new comes to the forum and is open to questioning "high end authorities" with wide reach in the community, then it is not enough to simply call these "authorities" idiots - this is likely to cause undecided people to turn away from the forum in disgust.

So if it's not obvious trolling, then you should try to explain to beginners and the inexperienced how the results were rigged to achieve the desired outcome.



Have speculated about the not fair "blind test" under Jay's video as well (see below). But speculation is not proof, so until evidence shows otherwise, I'm assuming Danny could possibly hear the differences in this rigged demonstration.

If Danny was able to differ the "plugin sound" of the connectors, he would certainly have taken a normal 8 gauge speaker cable (and not a thin 16 gauge) to demonstrate how superior his own cable is, which he was obviously incapable of doing and therefore used the thin 16 gauge cable.

View attachment 285206

Without any impartial witness or witnesses to the tests, cannot validate any assumptions. The test conditions are flawed and so any claim about results are flawed or worse. Does not matter who participated and how credible they are or not. Whether the test conditions were simply poorly controlled or intentionally deceptive or something else, the only takeaway is the test is invalid.

As with any other contaminated set of lab test conditions, the results should simply be thrown out.

 

[Cbdb2]

If someone new comes to the forum and is open to questioning "high end authorities" with wide reach in the community, then it is not enough to simply call these "authorities" idiots - this is likely to cause undecided people to turn away from the forum in disgust.

So if it's not obvious trolling, then you should try to explain to beginners and the inexperienced how the results were rigged to achieve the desired outcome.



Have speculated about the not fair "blind test" under Jay's video as well (see below). But speculation is not proof, so until evidence shows otherwise, I'm assuming Danny could possibly hear the differences in this rigged demonstration.

If Danny was able to differ the "plugin sound" of the connectors, he would certainly have taken a normal 8 gauge speaker cable (and not a thin 16 gauge) to demonstrate how superior his own cable is, which he was obviously incapable of doing and therefore used the thin 16 gauge cable.

View attachment 285206

Ive spent enough time saying more than this about BS research so now it quick and to the point. Search.

 

[delta76]

There is only brief showing of the cables. They are different gauge, lengths and use different connectors.

I have some of the banana plugs used on the cheaper cable and they cause a scraping noise as that are connected. The tube connectors are not that abrasive. Would bet I could tell the difference 10/10 times without playing any music!
There should be NO credit given for attempting a blind test when the simplest conditions of a valid test are not met.

The test was designed to be believable to the uninformed. It was not designed to be fair or scientific

 

[nsfgp]

There is only brief showing of the cables. They are different gauge, lengths and use different connectors.

I have some of the banana plugs used on the cheaper cable and they cause a scraping noise as that are connected. The tube connectors are not that abrasive. Would bet I could tell the difference 10/10 times without playing any music!
There should be NO credit given for attempting a blind test when the simplest conditions of a valid test are not met.

LOL. "Hey young man please keep quiet and don't talk while you are changing cables before the music plays. You can talk all you want after the music starts. ok??!!"

 

[amirm]

Do we want to try to replicate the test? We can't get his amp but surely if his cables are superior, then the difference should be there regardless of the gear. It is not like he stipulates that his cables are only to be used with his amplifier. We can buy his cable, and perform some AB tests and see where we land. We could also measure them.

 

[RickS]

The test was designed to be believable to the uninformed. It was not designed to be fair or scientific

Could be, but Danny knows ASR and others are going to call him out. Unless some earlier attempt failed badly, am struggling to see that he would think he could blatantly disregard basic test protocols and claim anything useful. As @ctrl indicates, the conditions could allow a critical listener to hear slight differences.

I think most of us would agree that (at most) their test shows Danny can hear slight differences when test conditions are favorable. Change the conditions to more valid ones and test more subjects and then share those results.

 

[voodooless]

Could be, but Danny knows ASR and others are going to call him out.

He also knows that his followers will defend him all the way til the end.

Unless some earlier attempt failed badly, am struggling to see that he would think he could blatantly disregard basic test protocols and claim anything useful.

Like always: he just does it, and many will believe.

 

[RickS]

Do we want to try to replicate the test? We can't get his amp but surely if his cables are superior, then the difference should be there regardless of the gear. It is not like he stipulates that his cables are only to be used with his amplifier. We can buy his cable, and perform some AB tests and see where we land. We could also measure them.

Maybe just a video (with measurements) to demonstrate whether it might be possible for Danny to hear a difference?

An attempt to show how to correctly do the test without Danny’s participation will simply result in him claiming his hearing is superior.

 

[amirm]

An attempt to show how to correctly do the test without Danny’s participation will simply result in him claiming his hearing is superior.

Then he would be his only customer!

 

[ctrl]

Do we want to try to replicate the test? We can't get his amp but surely if his cables are superior, then the difference should be there regardless of the gear. It is not like he stipulates that his cables are only to be used with his amplifier. We can buy his cable, and perform some AB tests and see where we land. We could also measure them.

The problem is that we cannot replicate the test because the most important information is missing (e.g. specification of both cables with connectors) and measurements did not ensure that both cables worked flawlessly. Is the copper of the cheap cable oxidized and the contact to the connector only pressed or badly soldered?...
Also, the exact test setup was never shown in detail.

Whether at 10 ft cable length the differences between the 8 gauge and 16 gauge cable alone are so significant that audible differences result is unlikely to be the case. The combination of thin, old, oxidized copper cable, bad connectors and speakers with an impedance below 5 ohms and a tube amplifier with low damping, might be enough to produce an audible difference compared to OFC 8 gauge cable.

Informing about the not fair "blind test" is necessary, but should you sacrifice your time for that?

 

[ctrl]

As a small addendum, Jay's posts about GR research are not as biased as some think, here is an example that should give Amir in particular satisfaction:

 

[Midwest Blade]

Do we want to try to replicate the test? We can't get his amp but surely if his cables are superior, then the difference should be there regardless of the gear. It is not like he stipulates that his cables are only to be used with his amplifier. We can buy his cable, and perform some AB tests and see where we land. We could also measure them.

Not sure there is much of anything to gain with a test, maybe another 20-30 pages of responses. Better to move along with more relevant testing and information than another cable “mosh pit”.

 

[Ron Texas]

I get my speaker cables at Home Depot. It's the stuff made for wiring RV's sound systems, 12 GA.