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Tanchjim Origin IEM Review

Rate this IEM:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 11 7.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 52 34.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 80 53.3%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 7 4.7%

  • Total voters
    150

MacClintock

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There is a reason the Nova is not on my list and it is because of the frequency response. That, and I already have the original Zero.
I don't get it, so you don't want a Harman compliant IEM? The Nova is better than the Zero in every respect. It has the highest compliance from all the IEMs you mentioned.
graph (24).png
 
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markanini

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I wouldn't want Harman IE, and I think a fair number wouldnt. That doesn't mean I think its not a good effort, just different from my preference. This is not even counter to Harman research as that represents average, and personalization is acknowledged by Sean Olive.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I wouldn't want Harman IE, and I think a fair number wouldnt. That doesn't mean I think its not a good effort, just different from my preference.
You ever participated in a controlled test to verify your preference? I remember not believing in their research for speakers either until I sat through their blind test and voted just like the majority did in their research.

Regardless, as I keep saying, the notion of an exact target does not exist. It cannot exist due to lack of standardization in content production even if everything else is perfect. We just need to get the market to a standard that has the weight that Harman research has and let the people who say they want something different to EQ. Or choose products that follow the curve closely but different in a bit of tuning like the various versions of Zero.

Above all, we can't chase any other ideas about a target without due subjective testing/correlation. That, would be completely random.
 

Chromatischism

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I don't get it, so you don't want a Harman compliant IEM? The Nova is better than the Zero in every respect. It has the highest compliance from all the IEMs you mentioned.
Correct. For me, Harman IE 2019 is very bright and shouty. And it doesn't sound anything like my home theater system.
 

markanini

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You ever participated in a controlled test to verify your preference? I remember not believing in their research for speakers either until I sat through their blind test and voted just like the majority did in their research.
Kind of, I created a custom VST that mimics the Harman studies, randomizing various positions of the bass and treble knob. In the signal chain I am using R128 based loudness compensation to not be biased by higher volume.
Many caveats however, for one is that I'm relying on third party measurements. Second I don't know the exact SPL.

Beyond that the results were not entriely useful because I found longer listening sessions call for a slightly warmer responce, something that can only be evaluated and tweaked upon manually AFAIK.
 
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redeyes

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I guess. I can't stand Harman tuned IEMs. SHOUT factor off the charts. I've checked out their research.. I don't like it. Not enough options to balance mids, midbass, treble.
 
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Chromatischism

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Beyond that the results were not entirely useful because I found longer listening sessions call for a slightly warmer response, something that can only be evaluated and tweaked upon manually AFAIK.
This is an extremely important point and I always found the same to be true when I was tweaking my home system with subs.

My IEM tuning was arrived at using longer listening and tweaking over several weeks, to be a tuning that always works no matter when I listen! If someone puts it on briefly to test it out, they may find it dull if their ears have not yet adapted to the neutrality. Especially if coming from other kinds of sounds. But it doesn't take long for everything to sound correct. For me it's under a minute. I also use spectrally dense, full spectrum music--modern rock and metal, as well as movie soundtracks (many different composers). So by the time I am done, there is --nothing-- that is going to fatigue my ears and everything sounds perfect. I simply hear the correct sound which allows me to enjoy everything and stop thinking about the sound.

Harman didn't go to these lengths of fine-tuning in their study, for obvious, practical reasons.

Also, our personal ear resonances can be slightly different, so you need to get a spectrum analyzer or use a tool to find them. That's what I did. But what I ended up with is a tuning that more closely resembles the Zero Red with a bass boost and treble cut. The mids are perfect already.
 

MacClintock

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This is an extremely important point and I always found the same to be true when I was tweaking my home system with subs.

My IEM tuning was arrived at using longer listening and tweaking over several weeks, to be a tuning that always works no matter when I listen! If someone puts it on briefly to test it out, they may find it dull if their ears have not yet adapted to the neutrality. Especially if coming from other kinds of sounds. But it doesn't take long for everything to sound correct. For me it's under a minute. I also use spectrally dense, full spectrum music--modern rock and metal, as well as movie soundtracks (many different composers). So by the time I am done, there is --nothing-- that is going to fatigue my ears and everything sounds perfect. I simply hear the correct sound which allows me to enjoy everything and stop thinking about the sound.

Harman didn't go to these lengths of fine-tuning in their study, for obvious, practical reasons.

Also, our personal ear resonances can be slightly different, so you need to get a spectrum analyzer or use a tool to find them. That's what I did. But what I ended up with is a tuning that more closely resembles the Zero Red with a bass boost and treble cut. The mids are perfect already.
Well, I like the Truthear Zero:Red also, with the 10 Ohm adapter. But the treble is a bit unsmooth, which unfortunately cannot be EQed properly. For that reason the Nova stands out. If you look at the graph, it passes between 2 and 6 kHz below the Harman target, so it is not shouty.
 
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IAtaman

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I check IEM reviews to see how high up someone compared it to one of the Zeros. It came in the review itself in this instance, so that is the end of that game...

There are only 2 things I find interesting about this product :
  • The channel balance in highs. Any theories as to why that is happening - maybe metal shell is not precise enough?
  • It is interesting from business perspective to see companies trying to move up the value chain and create differentiation in a category that they were able to enter due to erosion of differentiation. C brands becoming B brands becoming A brands in not unheard of - would be interesting to see if IEM manufacturers would be able to manage that.
 

taotone

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Creating a bunch of FUD against IEMs and taking us farther and farther away from standardization is a huge disservice to audiophiles. You keep doing this and never get this larger picture. Or maybe you do and like the confusion that it creates. Unlike stuff you are throwing at the board, Harman's IEM research is backed by correlation to listening tests -- something you have never, ever done. That you then proceed to complain about their work while having never done yours, is stay the least, preposterous.

I'm not sure how you manage to wilfully misinterpret the Harman research so hard and so long.

The solution for all of this is simple: develop your own EQ starting with the measurements. Try what I and others produce. Then make small adjustments to taste. There is no solution other than this. It is absurd to chase this and that target, worry about this and that fixture as they are doing in that video.

And yet that is exactly what you do. You chase only the standard and statistically weak average PREFERENCE curve from the Harman research whilst completely ignoring all the caveats and inadequacies of the field as they develop new and better methodology. At some point (hopefully in the not too distant future) the updated research will show up many of the inadequacies with the original research.

The references about different targets and measurement fixtures/systems in that video show how ridiculously facile your process is, completely ignoring how poor the current state of the science is when it comes to IEM and headphone measurements and individual variance in experience.

Your IEM/Headphone review procedure is as follows:
1. Take an approximate measurement.
2. Compare it to some fairly weak research on consumer preferences.
3. If it matches => Recommend.
4. If it doesn't match => attempt to EQ to match, if successful without horrible distortion then Recommend, else do not recommend.
5. Apply confirmation bias during EQ process for subjective self-congratulation.

It's ridiculous, and Dr Toole in interviews is obviously embarrassed that you are misusing his research so badly.

How about doing your subjective tests and first round of EQ FIRST? - then run it through the rig with that EQ applied. We will then see how closely and reliably your subjective preference curve actually matches Harman, and you can build up a database of how much role bias plays the subjective part of your reviews.

Also to the fools who think that the only thing you need is FR that matches the Harman preference curve and there is literally nothing else except cosmetics perhaps you should actually listen to a few different IEMs.

Crinacle has hard-gamed this site so much with his collabs its hilarious, and he's laughing all the way to the bank.

There is no magic in IEMs, it's all science, but the state of the science in this field is only just surface level and part of being a decent scientist is understanding how much is still not known and not zealously over-applying early results.
 

asrUser

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Too expensive for a single DD IEM. You're better off to buy NOVA.
 

CedarX

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hilariously overconfident posts
We have the “A Call For Humor!” thread… Should we start a new one titled “Posts With Actual Humor…” to redirect posts like the one above (the one from @taotone)?
 
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markanini

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Its always hilarious when someone attempts to make a serious argument based on memes.
 
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