Uptone EtherREGEN

[amirm]

It is not true that a null experience with one product means that a null experience shall be had with another - even from the same manufacturer. I bought an ISO REGEN way back. I couldn't hear a difference. (But then I possessed a loathing of USB almost as ferocious as my hatred of digits in the 1980s.) It didn't stop me rushing to get a first-batch EtherREGEN.

I am curious what caused you to rush to get one. What was it about what you were told that made you so anxious to get one? Must be a lot to overcome the experience you had with ISO USB.

For my part, I am 100% open and willing to test EtherRegen even though I have tested a number of their other products, having found them to either have faults, or did nothing useful. This, while we can based on very strong engineering analysis render an opinion that this box can't possibly improve the sound, and certainly not so audibly as people say. Those audiophiles would flunk simple blind tests of MP3 at 320 kbps versus CD where only 1/4 of the data size is preserved. And we have 100% introduced distortion.

 

[Hugo9000]

It certainly is inefficient and causes heat to rise back into the component. And lacks circulation. Now, if the need is modest, it works and is used often that way. In the case I was referring to, the situation was very different as we were talking about this power amplifier:

As you see, the heatsinks are trapped below. The arguments a few of us technical folks made was that the capacitors inside would run hotter and as a result have a shorter life time.

Oh, it looks adorable! It's like some modern sculpture of a googly-eyed many-legged creature! The knobs are its eyes, and it's looking up to our left and it's a touch cross-eyed, even! The fins of the heat sink are its legs, and the wavy overall shape is meant to depict the legs being in motion! I think the cute industrial cartoon look adds to the subjective charm of the unit. It should definitely cost at least $15k just for that, nevermind the performance, since it's actual art!

Edited to add: The eyes remind me of the Abominable Snowman from the classic Rankin/Bass Christmas special, Rudolph:

Now that I think of it, the fins could also be teeth (obviously this would be before Hermey had a chance to pull them all, thus disarming the Bumble )? It's art, after all, so I suppose it's open to the interpretation of the viewer! haha!

 

[Iving]

I am curious what caused you to rush to get one. What was it about what you were told that made you so anxious to get one? Must be a lot to overcome the experience you had with ISO USB.

For my part, I am 100% open and willing to test EtherRegen even though I have tested a number of their other products, having found them to either have faults, or did nothing useful. This, while we can based on very strong engineering analysis render an opinion that this box can't possibly improve the sound, and certainly not so audibly as people say. Those audiophiles would flunk simple blind tests of MP3 at 320 kbps versus CD where only 1/4 of the data size is preserved. And we have 100% introduced distortion.

Why I got one notwithstanding ISO ... good question ... probably an aggregate of:
- Even tho' my Dante system is good it seems a never-ending quest to banish digital edge and I hoped this might achieve something in that respect SQ: effect ratio;
- Whilst I have some expertise in some fields, I do not in ethernet/network technology ... it's not at all uncommon for humans to *sensibly* recognise and/or place confidence in expertise in fields outside their own ... both contempt and requirement of proof prior to investigation are hardly universal panaceas;
- 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Then the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Some contributors here seem to want to tell me what I am hearing. OK whatever. Where's the yawn emoji.

I hope you get a chance to test the ER. I'd be very interested to see your results.

Whatever they are, I do think you have to be careful extrapolating to subjective experience of music.

I'd be happy to subject myself to blind tests ER/No ER. It'd be fun. I don't have an axe to grind. I just want to enjoy myself.

 

[BDWoody]

Oh, it looks adorable! It's like some modern sculpture of a googly-eyed many-legged creature! The knobs are its eyes, and it's looking up to our left and it's a touch cross-eyed, even! The fins of the heat sink are its legs, and the wavy overall shape is meant to depict the legs being in motion! I think the cute industrial cartoon look adds to the subjective charm of the unit. It should definitely cost at least $15k just for that, nevermind the performance, since it's actual art!

Edited to add: The eyes remind me of the Abominable Snowman from the classic Rankin/Bass Christmas special, Rudolph:

View attachment 39733

View attachment 39734
Now that I think of it, the fins could also be teeth (obviously this would be before Hermey had a chance to pull them all, thus disarming the Bumble )? It's art, after all, so I suppose it's open to the interpretation of the viewer! haha!

Ok...question from the back of the peanut gallery...
Any reason not to turn it upside down?

 

[amirm]

Whatever they are, I do think you have to be careful extrapolating to subjective experience of music.

Why do you give that advice to me?

 

[amirm]

Ok...question from the back of the peanut gallery...
Any reason not to turn it upside down?

The electrons will fall out of the caps if you did that!

 

[Hugo9000]

Ok...question from the back of the peanut gallery...
Any reason not to turn it upside down?

Well, it looks kind of cute that way, I guess. Perhaps a bit anxiety-inducing, though? His hair is standing on end, and his eyes are now downcast with fear or possibly dismay. Hmm, perhaps this could be the industial design for the amplifier, and the original could be the dac/pre, which would go under it? Except I wouldn't expect high power output or relentless control of my speaker drivers based upon the "body language" and facial expression suggested by the object in this orientation. So while it's cute and interesting, the look might undermine the subjective performance of the unit.

I hope it's obvious that I'm not the designer or affiliated in any way with the manufacturer or otherwise to blame (lol), I was simply struck by the look of the unit upon seeing the pic in @amirm 's post!

OMG, I've got it! Okay, this orientation is for the amplifier! Where the knobs are, substitute VU meters like the ones on this TEAC! The original unit with knobs as eyes would be the control amp/preamp. That makes better sense, if this one is purely a power amp, the knobs wouldn't by useful anyway. And the cheerful VU meters with dancing needles along with the fin design (hair) would emphasize that the amp is bristling with energy, not fear! PERFECT. Okay, Redgum, if you're still in business, send me a check for my brilliant ideas. You can give a percentage to @BDWoody as well for inspiring me to look at this unit flipped over.

 

[BDWoody]

The electrons will fall out of the caps if you did that!

Those finicky little bastards.
So hard to tell what they're going to do...

 

[Iving]

It

Why do you give that advice to me?

It's not so much direct advice to you personally as a caveat regarding the unknown space between what can be measured objectively and what may be heard subjectively.

I am curious about exactly what the ER does. I don't know what it does from a technical standpoint. (I have a rough idea.) I'd be impressed if you technical guys could conduct a non-prejudicial teardown of what the ER does and does not do wrt its stated purpose. Then map those findings to objective measurements you may consider relevant.

I hear improved SQ. I do not doubt my "ears" in this respect. That perceptual improvement may or may not correspond with what your instruments might determine is "better" at the DAC output. I'd be interested to see.

Of course ASR contributors may dispute that I hear better SQ either way. Or may consider that I should not hear better SQ. But that takes us back to philosophical Square One.

 

[thyname]

I hear improved SQ. I do not doubt my "ears" in this respect. That perceptual improvement may or may not correspond with what your instruments might determine is "better" at the DAC output. I'd be interested to see.

Of course ASR contributors may dispute that I hear better SQ either way. Or may consider that I should not hear better SQ. But that takes us back to philosophical Square One.

The "Party" line is: any impression without evidence (read: without measurement and without scientifically controlled ABX tests), is null and void ;-)

 

[amirm]

It's not so much direct advice to you personally as a caveat regarding the unknown space between what can be measured objectively and what may be heard subjectively.

I asked because I have ears like you do so we are even there. But I also understand the technologies involved. I worked on one of the first Ethernet cards back in 1983 or so, implementing TCP/IP protocol on top of it which powers the entire Internet. That cad had a retail price of $20,000 or more!

I also know psychoacoustics, computer architecture, operating systems, media players (my team developed such at Microsoft), the entire audio/video stack in the OS (again, my team developed this at Microsoft). I also know about measurements and am an electrical engineer.

With all of this, how are you concerned that I might know less than you as to give that advice? I am asking genuinely, in the same manner that I would ask why you would challenge your doctor on whether he really knows his profession or not. See where I am going?

At what point would you listen to experts in this field? Never?

 

[Killingbeans]

it's not at all uncommon for humans to *sensibly* recognise and/or place confidence in expertise in fields outside their own ... both contempt and requirement of proof prior to investigation are hardly universal panaceas;

Some contributors here seem to want to tell me what I am hearing. OK whatever. Where's the yawn emoji.

No offence, but I take that as a blind confidence in those who wants to sell you a product, and complete disregard of those who desperately tries to show you that expectation bias is a very real thing.

 

[Iving]

I asked because I have ears like you do so we are even there. But I also understand the technologies involved. I worked on one of the first Ethernet cards back in 1983 or so, implementing TCP/IP protocol on top of it which powers the entire Internet. That cad had a retail price of $20,000 or more!

I also know psychoacoustics, computer architecture, operating systems, media players (my team developed such at Microsoft), the entire audio/video stack in the OS (again, my team developed this at Microsoft). I also know about measurements and am an electrical engineer.

With all of this, how are you concerned that I might know less than you as to give that advice? I am asking genuinely, in the same manner that I would ask why you would challenge your doctor on whether he really knows his profession or not. See where I am going?

At what point would you listen to experts in this field? Never?

To give what advice? You have a tendency to insist on making a potentially intelligent argument about you personally. That isn't how it is for me.

 

[Iving]

No offence, but I take that as a blind confidence in those who wants to sell you a product, and complete disregard of those who desperately tries to show you that expectation bias is a very real thing.

No offence but nice second try and desperation is not what impresses me.

 

[BDWoody]

No offence but nice second try and desperation is not what impresses me.

That's what she said...

 

[amirm]

To give what advice?

This advice:

Whatever they are, I do think you have to be careful extrapolating to subjective experience of music.

You have a tendency to insist on making a potentially intelligent argument about you personally. That isn't how it is for me.

You told me to be careful about extrapolating to subjective experience of music. I am asking what is it that you think I lack in that department. And on what basis?

If you are reluctant to answer, I can answer for you.

 

[amirm]

I am curious about exactly what the ER does. I don't know what it does from a technical standpoint. (I have a rough idea.)

What is that rough idea?

 

[amirm]

- Even tho' my Dante system is good it seems a never-ending quest to banish digital edge and I hoped this might achieve something in that respect SQ: effect ratio;

Let me ask you this. According to decades of research and understanding in formal audio science, there is not one shred of support for the idea that digital has an "edge." It is the opposite: that digital is far more faithful to the source than analog for example. If you were a betting man, what odds would you give to yourself being right as opposed to an army of people who have to do this for a living and their reputation depends on them being right?

 

[g29]

It certainly is inefficient and causes heat to rise back into the component. And lacks circulation. Now, if the need is modest, it works and is used often that way. In the case I was referring to, the situation was very different as we were talking about this power amplifier:

As you see, the heatsinks are trapped below. The arguments a few of us technical folks made was that the capacitors inside would run hotter and as a result have a shorter life time.

I would get the urge to turn something like that upside down.

 

[Killingbeans]

No offence but nice second try and desperation is not what impresses me.

You can't blame people for getting desperate if you won't listen to reason.

I am curious about exactly what the ER does. I don't know what it does from a technical standpoint. (I have a rough idea.) I'd be impressed if you technical guys could conduct a non-prejudicial teardown of what the ER does and does not do wrt its stated purpose.

Okay, I'll give it a go.

The ER supposedly improves the integrity of the data packages received. To sum up the technical side: Low noise power supply, galvanic isolation of in- and output circuitry, low jitter components and high precision clock.

It probably does what it does perfectly well, but the problem is that the receiving end couldn't care less. A normal cheap ethernet switch already gives you a completely (audibly) flawless stream of data. Even a considerable amount of errors in the transmission is negated by its speed and the ability to request a resend of faulty packages. There is nothing to gain, and that's why we keep underlining that it actually "does" nothing.

We are not trying to be condescending. The thing is just quite literally designed to fix a non-existent problem.