Measurements and Review of Schiit Yggdrasil DAC

[svart-hvitt]

Why? I have nothing to speak to him about.

Other manufacturers have reached out to me here in private and public to discuss my work and I am happy to do that. I see no reason to go and seek them out.

Yes, they better come to you and particiapate at ASR so we can all learn a thing or two.

If you’re able to tip the scale in favour of the conumer, it’s a big win for all users.

 

[FrivolsListener]

Really not sure I understand your response in this context.

You're talking to a person. Treat them like one. Ask what is going on, rather than "demanding an explanation."

 

[amirm]

You're talking to a person. Treat them like one. Ask what is going on, rather than "demanding an explanation."

I see a lot of demanding from me. Are you defending me there just the same?

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Thanks Jim, I just wondered whether the dubious sign was audible , seemingly it was!
Keith

Yes and listeners have done the exact same thing with exactly the opposite results.

 

[Thomas savage]

I see a lot of demanding from me. Are you defending me there just the same?

Your getting a good kicking here ...,

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/amirgate-1-multibit-schiit-dacs.5786/

If someone has a technical issue with the measurements they only have to sign up here and say so..

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

For an inexperienced listener with low end gear it probably isn't. But if you heard something better you might have a "knack" that the other DAC is better.
The differences were really heard in fine details of the violin and in the tonality of the piano. There were certain keys which were less than clear, which didn't happen on the other DACs' (not on the D30 or M8 or FiiO K1). So I would listen to the music and listen for those distorted tones or missing sounds.
It also would distort cymbals (even if I don't listen to music with cymbals typically) once I had an idea of what would distort I went around Spotify finding various tracks where the differences were audible.

Ok, So you are an experienced listener with high end gear, that is way cool. You have posted the exact opposite of what someone posted about their multi-bit listening experience.

 

[amirm]

Your getting a good kicking here ...,

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/amirgate-1-multibit-schiit-dacs.5786/

If someone has a technical issue with the measurements they only have to sign up here and say so..

Kicking? What you talking about? You are just jealous that I am famous and have a "gate" named after me!!!

Folks there need to know that I test equipment the same, in some instances just switching one gear for anther in a matter of seconds and remeasure. And those measurements vary and that is what I report. People can ignore my text commentary and explain why other gear is not disadvantaged but Schiit is.

 

[Rene]

The only idea is that multibit DAC's have a specific limited range of operating temperatures due to the way they operate, and therefore waiting for them to "warm up" to their specific temp will yield the best results in terms of accuracy. But "warm up" periods shouldn't take more than a few minutes at best on any modern electronics.

Analog Devices data sheet shows the AD7591 to meet linearity specs from 0-105C.
Warm-up time is not or needn't be specified for a product operating at room temperature.

 

[Deleted member 65]

Not sure I understand JA's explanation on why he didn't reveal/measure Yggdrasils resolution. Bit cloudy words to me, pls elaborate those of you with knowledge on the subject.

 

[Thomas savage]

Kicking? What you talking about? You are just jealous that I am famous and have a "gate" named after me!!!

Folks there need to know that I test equipment the same, in some instances just switching one gear for anther in a matter of seconds and remeasure. And those measurements vary and that is what I report. People can ignore my text commentary and explain why other gear is not disadvantaged but Schiit is.

Congratulations on that by the way!

The notorious A M I R...

They can say what they like, no one makes a kebab half as good as you ...,

 

[maul]

From SBAF: "Bimby does not measure badly. It measures respectably for 16-bit entry level multi-bit DAC. And the fact that Amir paints the opposite picture incorrectly, with folks actually buying that, is only the tip of the iceberg."

That's rich. I believe even their measurements showed it crapped out after 10 bits, and that's not bad?

I'm no expert, but aren't these linearity tests showing the same thing (first is atomicbob's measurement):

and amirm's:

 

[Rene]

Now I'm worried. Looks like you've taken what had the possibility of being a beautiful room and turned it into a disastrous
mess.
I'm not sure how I can balance that against trust in your measurements any more.

"Is this my beautiful house...." No, this is the home of the Pacific Northwest Audio Society on a troubling, rainy Saturday trying to figure out how to level match and compare two (or three, or four) innocent dacs using a Switchman 3 while being assaulted by geeks bearing Audio Precision test gear. (With apologies to Amir for his noble efforts.) You just can't believe how much trouble it takes to make useful sound comparisons for a crowd of 40 or so people.

But we had fun trying!

 

[DonH56]

Not sure I understand JA's explanation on why he didn't reveal/measure Yggdrasils resolution. Bit cloudy words to me, pls elaborate those of you with knowledge on the subject.

If the DAC is throwing away bits, e.g. truncating the data, going into the DAC then there is no way to measure the DAC's intrinsic linearity. Truncation will raise the noise floor and may add some (generally very low-level) spurs.

 

[mindbomb]

Not sure I understand JA's explanation on why he didn't reveal/measure Yggdrasils resolution. Bit cloudy words to me, pls elaborate those of you with knowledge on the subject.

There is resolution in terms of linearity and also in terms of dynamic range. In the ASR measurements, the yggdrasil looks like it has about 20 bits of dynamic range, which is apparent from the -90db sine wave, and how sharp it looks. It also has 16 bits of linearity, which you can see from the linearity test. So there isn't a contradiction there because they are different metrics.

With r2r dacs, dynamic range is often bottlenecked by quantization noise (eg a 16 bit r2r dac can't have more than 16 bits of dynamic range), so JA is questioning if he should state it, since it doesn't reflect the analog noise performance. I don't see the issue though.

 

[RayDunzl]

Your getting a good kicking here ...,

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/amirgate-1-multibit-schiit-dacs.5786/

It's probably those pesky Russians infiltrating our forums...

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

 

[Jimster480]

Yes and listeners have done the exact same thing with exactly the opposite results.

Sure you can be right. I am not saying that my experience is concrete but considering how it sounded to me and how now the bifrost multibit has measured.... it makes perfect sense and actually coincides with the results that I had last year.

 

[Jimster480]

Analog Devices data sheet shows the AD7591 to meet linearity specs from 0-105C.
Warm-up time is not or needn't be specified for a product operating at room temperature.

True, then there is no excuse nor should there be any warm up time.

 

[rtg97229]

Hello Amir,

First thank you for taking the measurements. I wanted to talk more about documentation with you but it looks like someone did not want you conversing on head-fi.

Your link (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/) covers some of what I was asking for but I think you could be a little more detailed for your readers and list the associated equipment in each review. I don’t think this is too much to ask and it would improve your product. I am sure you have seen the atomicbob measurements many times that people keep posting so you have seen a satisfactory list done simple for equipment used and explanation of test setup.

Pictures, pictures, pictures! Please post more pictures because a test setup that is not repeatable is not as useful as one that is repeatable. Pictures help everyone because it helps in being able to repeat a test setup and the measurements.

It does look like you found something interesting with the 60 Hz modulation of the signal. If you are willing it may be interesting to dig deeper into this issue.

 

[Jimster480]

Hello Amir,

First thank you for taking the measurements. I wanted to talk more about documentation with you but it looks like someone did not want you conversing on head-fi.

Your link (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-audio-measurements.2351/) covers some of what I was asking for but I think you could be a little more detailed for your readers and list the associated equipment in each review. I don’t think this is too much to ask and it would improve your product. I am sure you have seen the atomicbob measurements many times that people keep posting so you have seen a satisfactory list done simple for equipment used and explanation of test setup.

Pictures, pictures, pictures! Please post more pictures because a test setup that is not repeatable is not as useful as one that is repeatable. Pictures help everyone because it helps in being able to repeat a test setup and the measurements.

It does look like you found something interesting with the 60 Hz modulation of the signal. If you are willing it may be interesting to dig deeper into this issue.

I think he had to give the Yggdrasil back because he went to a meetup where people had them to test it I believe.

 

[Dimitri]

I don’t think this is too much to ask and

How you doin' ?

Next thing you know someone will not think it's too much to ask for a video recording of the measurement sessions SMPTE timecode incuded.
Or a notary to be present ... or who knows what else.

"He don't have to prove not'n to nobody".