My Tidal subscription is about to expire, what next?

[sal]

Who is Bob Stuart? Thank you so much for your reply! Agree for 200 %.
(Also wondering about the vinyl hype. Why would we possibly go back to the stone age besides nostalgia.)

You've obviously never listened to good vinyl system. I'm not a vinyl snob, but I do listen to vinyl. For me, vinyl:yes, FLAC:yes, MQA:yes, whatever:yes. I want them all, give them to me. I will be the judge.

The Vinyl sound, BTW, is what everyone is chasing - pure analog. But wait, Vinyl uses a lossy compression algorithm. Huh? You heard me right. In fact, you need a special decoder for the signal, it's called a phono preamp. When they cut a record, they use an analog curve. Lower frequencies are not cut as deep and wide as they should be so that the can fit more data on the disc (compression). The phono preamp reads the signal and applies the reverse curve. The standard now is called the RIAA curve. There is another barely surviving curve called DECCA (the 2 are somewhat interchangeable if memory serves). The vinyl does not sound exactly like the master tape, so it must be lossy - right?

In fact, the same argument that's going on right now about lossy/lossless, MQA vs whatever has happened before. There were several competing formats for analog, all of them were proprietary. After some time, the recording industry (RIAA) got together and said, "this" is the standard.

Unfortunately, I would not hold your breath for this to happen with streaming music. The recording industry is so diluted at this point, no-one can agree on the color of %^%$&. And there is no need for it anyway, modern digital devices can do it all.

The only people who can really bitch about MQA are the hardware manufacturers as they have to license the MQA technology. I'm pretty sure it is they (I have a few people in mind) that started this whole "ruining the consumer experience" business.

As with golden eared audiophiles, I keep hearing a bunch of opinions with no data behind them. If MQA is ruining my music experience, please show me the data. It can't be a cost thing, I can switch to a non-MQA streaming service, and then would not need a device which has the added cost of MQA licensing in it.

{edit} No one seems to be complaining about Roon. People line up to pay them $20 a month and they don't stream a damn thing over the internet. They just add value to other streaming services. And Roon certification is a long and probably costly process.

 

[SKBubba]

MQA doesn’t sound “bad” on my setup. I don't hear any difference, really.

My issue is that MQA is a proprietary format that a) requires proprietary software, b) requires proprietary hardware for "full resolution", c) unnecessarily complicates and limits the signal path purchasing choices, d) provides no discernable benefit compared to existing non-proprietary solutions, e) is a rent-seeking solution in search of a problem, f) involves extra fees and royalties passed on to consumers, and g) takes away choice the way Tidal has has implemented it.

Thankfully, only a fraction of a rounding error of music listeners have access to it, and we have no verifiable metrics of how many actually listen to it.

All that said, I'm listening to Tidal via Roon right now. As I said before, Tidal is overall a good value. I can overlook MQA for now and hope it eventually goes away.

 

[sal]

MQA doesn’t sound “bad” on my setup. I don't hear any difference, really.

As with any of these formats, even vinyl, the predominant factor is going to be the quality of the original recording and the care taken during the encoding process. I've heard some MQA tracks that sound fantastic, and some that sound like doggy doo-doo.

 

[Jimbob54]

As with any of these formats, even vinyl, the predominant factor is going to be the quality of the original recording and the care taken during the encoding process. I've heard some MQA tracks that sound fantastic, and some that sound like doggy doo-doo.

Agreed. I dont like the idea of MQA from a commercial or principals perspective, but I have never once thought the MQA process itself was audibly beneficial or detrimental. I just think its unnecessary. The industry would be better served cleaning up all the dross versions/ remasters floating around out there , especially on the streaming services, to ensure the best sounding versions are available to be consumed. That is the other supposed benefit of MQA- the quality control, except we know the labels havent been too choosy about which versions they get stamped by Bob.

 

[sal]

...except we know the labels havent been too choosy about which versions they get stamped by Bob.

That is for sure. Though I don't think Bob is stamping anything at this point. He sold MQA long ago, and good for him. The point was that the labels were supposed to be "stamping" these files. Unfortunately, If you stamp a piece of dog crap with a "Quality Assured" label, you still have a piece of dog crap.

For "some reason", I can listen to "Aja" on any format and it sounds great. They do sound different, but better or worse is subjective. I did have to resort to buying the entire Led Zeppelin catalog on vinyl as when I listen to it streamed, it sounds like someone put a wet blanket on top of John Paul Jones's Acoustic bass amp. 16/44.1 FLAC, MQA, they all sounded like crap

 

[Zensō]

For what it’s worth (no more than $.02, perhaps less), I spent most of a year alternating between Tidal and Qobuz via Roon, and at the end of it, I went back to Apple Music for the convenience and the lack of hearing any difference in normal listening at reasonable volumes. Perhaps my system isn’t resolving enough (mostly upper-mid-fi headphones fed by RME DAC/amps), perhaps my ears are too old (I’m 59, though a recent hearing test showed better than average hearing for my age), or perhaps I‘ve simply lost interest in searching for fairies dancing on the head of a pin (most likely). In any case, the science mostly supports my experience that 256 kbps AAC is transparent to 16/44.1 sources.

 

[eddantes]

For what it’s worth (no more than $.02, perhaps less), I spent most of a year alternating between Tidal and Qobuz via Roon, and at the end of it, I went back to Apple Music for the convenience and the lack of hearing any difference in normal listening at reasonable volumes. Perhaps my system isn’t resolving enough (mostly upper-mid-fi headphones fed by RME DAC/amps), perhaps my ears are too old (I’m 59, though a recent hearing test showed better than average hearing for my age), or perhaps I‘ve simply lost interest in searching for fairies dancing on the head of a pin (most likely). In any case, the science mostly supports my experience that 256 kbps AAC is transparent to 16/44.1 sources.

For those reasons, as well as: price, selection, UI, and integrations - is why Spotify Family plan is where I ended up. The whole FAM has all the music they want - and frankly, I don't need to work so hard just to hear some minute differences.

 

[Pearljam5000]

For those reasons, as well as: price, selection, UI, and integrations - is why Spotify Family plan is where I ended up. The whole FAM has all the music they want - and frankly, I don't need to work so hard just to hear some minute differences.

Once you go FLAC you can never go back.

 

[Chrispy]

No you have the golden ears,all you do is cry all over the internet about MQA,who's forcing you to subscribe to MQA,no one.

I just don't like bullshit in audio.

 

[Nicolaas]

You've obviously never listened to good vinyl system. I'm not a vinyl snob, but I do listen to vinyl. For me, vinyl:yes, FLAC:yes, MQA:yes, whatever:yes. I want them all, give them to me. I will be the judge.

The Vinyl sound, BTW, is what everyone is chasing - pure analog. But wait, Vinyl uses a lossy compression algorithm. Huh? You heard me right. In fact, you need a special decoder for the signal, it's called a phono preamp. When they cut a record, they use an analog curve. Lower frequencies are not cut as deep and wide as they should be so that the can fit more data on the disc (compression). The phono preamp reads the signal and applies the reverse curve. The standard now is called the RIAA curve. There is another barely surviving curve called DECCA (the 2 are somewhat interchangeable if memory serves). The vinyl does not sound exactly like the master tape, so it must be lossy - right?

In fact, the same argument that's going on right now about lossy/lossless, MQA vs whatever has happened before. There were several competing formats for analog, all of them were proprietary. After some time, the recording industry (RIAA) got together and said, "this" is the standard.

Unfortunately, I would not hold your breath for this to happen with streaming music. The recording industry is so diluted at this point, no-one can agree on the color of %^%$&. And there is no need for it anyway, modern digital devices can do it all.

The only people who can really bitch about MQA are the hardware manufacturers as they have to license the MQA technology. I'm pretty sure it is they (I have a few people in mind) that started this whole "ruining the consumer experience" business.

As with golden eared audiophiles, I keep hearing a bunch of opinions with no data behind them. If MQA is ruining my music experience, please show me the data. It can't be a cost thing, I can switch to a non-MQA streaming service, and then would not need a device which has the added cost of MQA licensing in it.

{edit} No one seems to be complaining about Roon. People line up to pay them $20 a month and they don't stream a damn thing over the internet. They just add value to other streaming services. And Roon certification is a long and probably costly process.

Being 70+ I've been there with Thorens TD 160, Sony direct drive turntable, mm and mc elements etc. Last year I installed my Sony direct drive turntable and again tried a few of my hundreds of LPs and it sounded terrible to me. After 10 minutes I again stored my turntable at the attic...
Pure nostalgia and I'll keep it for my grand children. There are so many recent flac albums which do sound amazing great via Topping D90 DAC! I mostly listen to blues, folk, jazz and classical music. And sometimes pop but only if well recorded!
BTW I do not understand why I would need Roon at all. My Intel pentium NUC with free Linux Mint Xfce with Audacious is a great FLAC player together with D90 usb dac. And the Spotify app is also available for Linux Mint. As soon as Spotify rolls out the lossless NON MQA version I'll be the first to subscribe.

 

[dmac6419]

I just don't like bullshit in audio.

I really don't care,you have a Tidal account or any MQA CDs or files if not why are you worried about something you don't use,P.S do me a favor and take that BS elsewhere,thank you in advance and have a blessed day.

 

[Chrispy]

I really don't care,you have a Tidal account or any MQA CDs or files if not why are you worried about something you don't use,P.S do me a favor and take that BS elsewhere,thank you in advance and have a blessed day.

Why would I do you a favor? You will take your bs elsewhere too?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Qobuz!

 

[dmac6419]

Why would I do you a favor? You will take your bs elsewhere too?

Why you have a MQA fetish?, I'm just curious, moderator had to shut down the last thread remember, you over at audiophile style,SBAF,etc( for years) with the same schitt, I'm glad you don't like MQA,now do you feel better.

 

[sal]

easy now!

 

[Sprint]

@Pearljam5000 I tested extensively Apple Music Vs You Tube Premium Vs Spotify Vs Tidal Hifi Vs Qobuz Studio. My gear included both Genelecs and EQed headphones (Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro, Sony MDR ZX110, AirPods Pro). Source is MacBook -> headphones or RPI4 -> topping D10s -> Genelecs.

My preference is the following purely based on quality of music reproduction.
Qobuz Studio > Tidal Hifi > You Tube Premium > Apple Music > Spotify

 

[Jet Black]

It really is true that it is on the record, not that it is flac or 320kbps. I found some track on tidal has bad record and sounds inferior compared to a 320kbps spotify. And vice versa is also true. But for almost the same good copy it's hard to distinguish the difference.

 

[mkawa]

spotify's selection, recommendation system and overall music experience is so much better than all of the competition that it's ridiculous. tidal has a horrible recommendation system and its library is only undermatched by qobuz. i'm on amazon hd right now because the rec system isn't bad, and is getting better, quality of good recordings is good, selection is good because it more or less matches the store, and that's really all we can ask for. also, i don't have to commit to a full year to get reasonable pricing. the second that spotify goes lossless i'm switching back though, unless the lossless selection is poor or something (who knows, god knows they don't pay artists enough).

there is one thing that bugs the CRAP out of me with amazon music though, which is the lack of autoplay in the desktop app. seriously? this takes 5 minutes to implement, AND IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED ON YOUR MOBILE APPS

there is also a musical taste factor to be aware of though. if you listen primarily to pop music, tidal has a great selection. indie spotify by far then amazon (pays the most for streams, records are usually available via amazon.com). qobuz seems to have a really good selection of classic and prog rock as well as classical, but to be fair, everyone except for spotify has a good selection of classical, though maybe not exactly the recording you want just due to the size of the classical catalog corpus. another bright spot for spotify is international music, since they are in so many markets. for example, i like japanese indie. good luck finding it anywhere except for spotify or, if you're desperate, youtube videos.

i have no experience with apple music, but i wouldn't be surprised if a fair amount of the catalog is basically in ALAC, but they just don't bother advertising it, because apple.

 

[Sal1950]

You've obviously never listened to good vinyl system. I'm not a vinyl snob, but I do listen to vinyl. For me, vinyl:yes, FLAC:yes, MQA:yes, whatever:yes. I want them all, give them to me. I will be the judge.

The Vinyl sound, BTW, is what everyone is chasing - pure analog.

Lord we got a true koolaid drinker in you.
Since the dawn of recorded music the audiophiles dream has been to have access to a recording system that could offer us a input-output chain that could reproduce the live event. With the 16/44.1 digital recording that's what we got. Contrary to what you may read on the audiophool websites and magazines, there's never been a analog recording/playback system that can even come close to Redbook, the numbers don't lie here. The worlds best R-R decks are not even in the same ball park for accuracy in the audio chain. Anyone who chases "pure analog" sound is on a fools mission.

I really don't care,you have a Tidal account or any MQA CDs or files if not why are you worried about something you don't use

Once more it is Meridian/MQA stated mission to get all the record labels on board and have every new release MQA encoded.
So much for that audiophile dream we used to have, any access to a bit perfect copy of the original master tape will be gone and left in it's place will be a lossy codec with a number of hidden switches at hand to control what we can and cannot do with the file. Of course the labels have loved the idea from the very beginning. Do you believe they got into it to give us better sounding music?

As to the bottom line on vinyl, if you enjoy the nostalgic feel of it, that's all fine and good.
If you care about High Fidelity, the cutting of a new LP master stamper from any source, digital or analog, old or new recording, is a waste of material when the same could have been put into a digital source and listened to in bit perfect perfection..
God people, don't sell us down the river and come out of the dark ages.

 

[sal]

Lord we got a true koolaid drinker in you.

Good lord. Any reason to get personal? I simply said I like al;l the formats. Vinyl included.