General debate thread about audio measurements

[March Audio]

Stop.

Atomicbob doesn't ignore anything. He just weighs the importance of them. Instead of focusing how the DAC resolves 0x0000 from 0x0001, he's more interested in how it resolves 0x3000 vs 0x3001. Up in the places where you can hear it. It's still the LSB of the bitstream.

No. He has ignored some blatant problems.

I for one am bored of the Schiit apologist nonsense. The products have some significant technical issues which cheaper competitors dont. To defend that is idiotic.

Its utterly comic that the usual audiophile position of being able to hear a butterfly fart on the opposite side of the world is being turned on its head here. Suddenly you are arguing we cant heaR easily measureable issues.

Its very simple, wether you can personally hear differences or not, and no you have not established that you cant, it is idiotic to persue a more expensive technically inferior product.

I think its an excelent idea to park this sort of nonsense in a seperate thread (padded cell).

 

[Thomas savage]

Who? Schiit? Atomicbob? Everyone not included in the club of ASR? Your response is a cop-out for not having an answer.

I know what your doing, I’d not mind it if you had a clue.

I’m not famed for being a “cop-out” , you just failed to understand what I was saying and to whom.

 

[March Audio]

Schiit, like any company, does tradeoffs on design. They have branded themselves as a cost-effective way to get into good DACs. When I started looking for an external DAC, they were the only game in town. Now they have competition. That's good.

No. They are poor designs compared to cheaper alternatives. Only game in town? Eh? Thats simply not true.

 

[Wombat]

I agree, I’d like to thank you and the other few who have shown patience in trying to help those that don’t really know obtain a better understanding.

I appreciate your efforts.

I second Don's comment. The DAC tests have attracted lots of interest from the WWW. Unfortunately there are individuals who want the tests to affirm their opinions in gear but don't like it when the results don't meet their expectations/opinions and try to flim-flam their subjectiveness here and/or get in involved with other matters and apply the same old discredited approaches to topics whilst ignoring the input from knowledgeable and/or experienced contributors.

I have tightened-down my tolerance of repeatedly unsupported views because I don't want to see this forum's high ideals slide because we are reluctant to confront 'woo' to avoid disturbing uninformed sensibilities. The rot is creeping in. Don't give it free passage. Toes will be trodden on no matter how carefully we step. So be it.

 

[Wombat]

I know what your doing, I’d not mind it if you had a clue.

I’m not famed for being a “cop-out” , you just failed to understand what I was saying and to whom.

Frivolous Listener???

 

[Thomas savage]

I think it’s inevitable considering the nature of things that we are going to get these kind of debate dynamics at times , it’s a bit of a no win situation for all of us.

The easy thing to do would be for me to shut them down early , chuck the offending member out as they are not here with genuine interest but rather just to point score and cause disruption.

I don’t do that right away because it’s a slippery road ( plus the moment I stop giving people a chance is likely the moment I’d be wise to stop doing this job) to go down that will end up weakening the validity of what we are doing by creating a mono mindset of sorts , though that possibly won’t impact popularity it does turn us into something I’m not comfortable with.

As members I think for now we are just going to have to take some of this as collateral damage, until we can come up with a solution. I know that’s frustrating but the alternative is worse and irreversible imo.

This thread will probably become a shit show and those who could help in answering questions about the measurements won’t want to take part in it and I don’t blame them for feeling this way.

I know as learned folk it can be hard dealing with those less knowledgeable , I think if those who don’t know maintain some perspective on their lack of understanding and have a genuine intrest to learn it’s fine but if their just here to wage war and think their word carries parity with the more learned of you in doing so ....

Ideally the forum would own the discussion on measurements, with as wide a participation as possible . I want the discussion, the questioning and rigorous analysis of our data to go on here at ASR. There’s no value in the proxy wars between forums , the data is not being enhanced in any way. It’s just one set of fan boys vs another, or will be reduced to that in due course.

Suggestions, thoughts etc are welcome drop us a message through the conversation system if you feel inclined to have a say on these issues.

 

[FrivolsListener]

No. They are poor designs compared to cheaper alternatives. Only game in town? Eh? Thats simply not true.

WERE the only game in town. When I bought my first modi/magni, Little Dot was still considered a good amp maker, and searching for external DACs would come up with lots of "Other than modi/magni, what recommendations do you have..." met with silence. (modi/magni are only a fair pairing by today's standards.)

 

[FrivolsListener]

Frivolous Listener???

Yes, as opposed to a serious listener. It happens with age -- I'm in my mid-fifties now, and don't have the hearing I had when I was a 20-something. More's the pity.

 

[FrivolsListener]

I know what your doing, I’d not mind it if you had a clue.

I’m not famed for being a “cop-out” , you just failed to understand what I was saying and to whom.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

(yes, YOU'RE.)

 

[FrivolsListener]

I think it’s inevitable considering the nature of things that we are going to get these kind of debate dynamics at times , it’s a bit of a no win situation for all of us.

The easy thing to do would be for me to shut them down early , chuck the offending member out as they are not here with genuine interest but rather just to point score and cause disruption.

You can of course lock the thread or ban me, but then that makes you no better than those you rail against at head-fi (who are wrong, IMHO).

In any event, not schiit related, I got drawn over here by Amir's posts on head-fi, and I've drawn several conclusions, most of which have nothing to do with schiit, I doubt, however, that you'd have any interest in doing anything other than digging in to your established opinions.


Good night.

 

[Wombat]

Yes, as opposed to a serious listener. It happens with age -- I'm in my mid-fifties now, and don't have the hearing I had when I was a 20-something. More's the pity.

I was talking about listening to what others are saying about your posts.

 

[Thomas savage]

You can of course lock the thread or ban me, but then that makes you no better than those you rail against at head-fi (who are wrong, IMHO).

In any event, not schiit related, I got drawn over here by Amir's posts on head-fi, and I've drawn several conclusions, most of which have nothing to do with schiit, I doubt, however, that you'd have any interest in doing anything other than digging in to your established opinions.


Good night.

I don’t “ rail against “ anyone at head-fi Iv never even been there( as far as I can remember) , you’re ( yes, YOU’RE) conflating what you perceive to be forum group think with what I think personally.

Why you do that, well that’s for you to work out.

Sleep tight.

 

[Wombat]

You can of course lock the thread or ban me, but then that makes you no better than those you rail against at head-fi (who are wrong, IMHO).

In any event, not schiit related, I got drawn over here by Amir's posts on head-fi, and I've drawn several conclusions, most of which have nothing to do with schiit, I doubt, however, that you'd have any interest in doing anything other than digging in to your established opinions.


Good night.

"digging in to your established opinions". You could try some introspection on that matter.

"Good night"- going to bed or plain going?

 

[March Audio]

WERE the only game in town. When I bought my first modi/magni, Little Dot was still considered a good amp maker, and searching for external DACs would come up with lots of "Other than modi/magni, what recommendations do you have..." met with silence. (modi/magni are only a fair pairing by today's standards.)

This simply is and was never true.

 

[Wombat]

Enough rope or early mercy?????

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/hoist+with+own+petard

 

[FrivolsListener]

I don’t “ rail against “ anyone at head-fi Iv never even been there( as far as I can remember) , you’re ( yes, YOU’RE) conflating what you perceive to be forum group think with what I think personally.

Why you do that, well that’s for you to work out.

Sleep tight.

Actually, I meant "you" collectively.

 

[FrivolsListener]

This (debating with people who don't care for your point of view) is completely pointless. The goal seems to be to to keep throwing up all sorts of inane arguments

Yeah, I came in here to ask (on the Lyr thread) about what Amir's mains voltage was, and I've been bombarded with all sorts of graphs about how bad a 16 bit DAC behaves at -90dB FS (really, who cares?) and other graphs that people have ready to show why Schiit is crappy, but they have no immediate reference to where they originally came from.

Pardon me for being skeptical.

In any event, continue on with your ASR circle-jerk, and enjoy. If Amir wants to share his mains voltage -- which is what I originally asked about -- that'd be nice.

 

[Thomas savage]

Yeah, I came in here to ask (on the Lyr thread) about what Amir's mains voltage was, and I've been bombarded with all sorts of graphs about how bad a 16 bit DAC behaves at -90dB FS (really, who cares?) and other graphs that people have ready to show why Schiit is crappy, but they have no immediate reference to where they originally came from.

Pardon me for being skeptical.

In any event, continue on with your ASR circle-jerk, and enjoy. If Amir wants to share his mains voltage -- which is what I originally asked about -- that'd be nice.

As you seem to hold the forum and it’s members in such low esteem, Iv relived you of your membership privilege. There seems little value for you in contributing here and there’s certainly been nothing of worth for our members in terms of your contributions.

That would of been ok but for the language you have chosen to use here, I value our members too much to let you carry on like this.

 

[garbulky]

Yeah, I came in here to ask (on the Lyr thread) about what Amir's mains voltage was, a

It looks like he is using 70 hz, at least on some previous reviews from a lab supply.

 

[amirm]

It looks like he is using 70 hz, at least on some previous reviews from a lab supply.

No, that was a specialized tests where I used my lab AC generator to uncover when mains leakage is coming from. Ordinarily I just plug everything into my rack which is fed by 60 Hz. I will measure and post the voltage but it doesn't reveal anything.