jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Vinyl if done right is really a superior format. It is indeed full bandwidth as long as it was recorded and printed with full bandwidth. New reissues are essentially CD quality or as high resolution as the record was printed with.
My budget conscious Rega is heavily modified to get the absolute best out of the record itself. You have to look at who printed it, when it was mastered etc before making blunt statements that CD bandwidth is no greater than that of a CD. I can assure everyone that this simply isn't the case. When records where the state of the art there were many devices to use as playback. DJ style record players do not count in the debate about hi-fi as they served a much different purpose. With a record player, the plinth, the bearing, the cartridge of course, the internal wiring, the style of counterweight, VTA, Tracking angle, stylus pressure all have to be pretty much perfect along with a perfectly level player and subplatter. To get all of these variables to line up properly takes a lot of time and knowledge. A good record player playing the same song by the same artist and also offered as new at the same time, well there's no comparison. You also need a great phono-stage, and PSU if like my Rega, your table runs an AC motor. My cartridge is more expensive than many other parts of my audio equipment. So is the underhung counterweight. If you remember the 70's there was often a subsonic filter switch so you would be less likely to blow speakers because they played well below 20hz notes in the silent sections in between tracks. You also have to have a record flatter, basically a iron for your records, it takes 7-8 hours including cool-down time to flatten a record. You also need a fluid based cleaner that has either a vacuum and brush system or an infrasonic cleaner with a vacuuming system to clean out all of those grooves. Record storage is also critical to keep them from warping. A good phono stage allows for the correct loading as each cartridge is different, even within the same brand.
Sure if you buy a mass merchant record player today that has a built in phonostage, it won't have the extended range, that's 100% true. And again, if LP was the standard when the same music was released on CD, we are talking about 2x oversampling, and later 4x oversampling. A huge leap was 8x oversampling CD players.
The argument that a record player is inferior is uninformed. A quality deck costs many thousands of dollars by the time you are done assembling all the necessary hardware. Indeed, you can buy a compact car in today's money new, and not be able to buy the ultimate in record player. Tests that are aiming to prove that an LP is no better or inferior to a CD is inherently biased as the test was designed and implemented to prove the supremacy of a CD player. My Statistics teacher on the first day came in and said welcome to SADISTICS. Pointing out that what he is going to teach us is that statistics are inherently flawed without a vast, vast number of blind, double blind, triple blind test subjects.
It's unfortunate that so many have had poor listening sessions with regards to LP playback. It just takes a lot of knowledge and equipment multiplied by time to get a hi-fi record player working right. Even the correct oil is required.
The return of record players is great, but the bulk of the equipment being sold at mass merchants does not come into the realm of hi-fi. You have to go to a speciality store that has no desire to sell you an all in one device before you start comparing the sound quality of a record over CD or any digital file. I've got the record flatter (iron) I don't have a good solution based cleaner. And you can't air dry your records after solution based liquid cleaning. It has to be vacuum cleaned so it's dry again. It's a hug pain which is also what makes it so rewarding when it's done right.
Yes, my record player is worth much more than several top of the range, name brand 55" and greater 4K TV's and I don't mind a bit. Worth every penny.
My budget conscious Rega is heavily modified to get the absolute best out of the record itself. You have to look at who printed it, when it was mastered etc before making blunt statements that CD bandwidth is no greater than that of a CD. I can assure everyone that this simply isn't the case. When records where the state of the art there were many devices to use as playback. DJ style record players do not count in the debate about hi-fi as they served a much different purpose. With a record player, the plinth, the bearing, the cartridge of course, the internal wiring, the style of counterweight, VTA, Tracking angle, stylus pressure all have to be pretty much perfect along with a perfectly level player and subplatter. To get all of these variables to line up properly takes a lot of time and knowledge. A good record player playing the same song by the same artist and also offered as new at the same time, well there's no comparison. You also need a great phono-stage, and PSU if like my Rega, your table runs an AC motor. My cartridge is more expensive than many other parts of my audio equipment. So is the underhung counterweight. If you remember the 70's there was often a subsonic filter switch so you would be less likely to blow speakers because they played well below 20hz notes in the silent sections in between tracks. You also have to have a record flatter, basically a iron for your records, it takes 7-8 hours including cool-down time to flatten a record. You also need a fluid based cleaner that has either a vacuum and brush system or an infrasonic cleaner with a vacuuming system to clean out all of those grooves. Record storage is also critical to keep them from warping. A good phono stage allows for the correct loading as each cartridge is different, even within the same brand.
Sure if you buy a mass merchant record player today that has a built in phonostage, it won't have the extended range, that's 100% true. And again, if LP was the standard when the same music was released on CD, we are talking about 2x oversampling, and later 4x oversampling. A huge leap was 8x oversampling CD players.
The argument that a record player is inferior is uninformed. A quality deck costs many thousands of dollars by the time you are done assembling all the necessary hardware. Indeed, you can buy a compact car in today's money new, and not be able to buy the ultimate in record player. Tests that are aiming to prove that an LP is no better or inferior to a CD is inherently biased as the test was designed and implemented to prove the supremacy of a CD player. My Statistics teacher on the first day came in and said welcome to SADISTICS. Pointing out that what he is going to teach us is that statistics are inherently flawed without a vast, vast number of blind, double blind, triple blind test subjects.
It's unfortunate that so many have had poor listening sessions with regards to LP playback. It just takes a lot of knowledge and equipment multiplied by time to get a hi-fi record player working right. Even the correct oil is required.
The return of record players is great, but the bulk of the equipment being sold at mass merchants does not come into the realm of hi-fi. You have to go to a speciality store that has no desire to sell you an all in one device before you start comparing the sound quality of a record over CD or any digital file. I've got the record flatter (iron) I don't have a good solution based cleaner. And you can't air dry your records after solution based liquid cleaning. It has to be vacuum cleaned so it's dry again. It's a hug pain which is also what makes it so rewarding when it's done right.
Yes, my record player is worth much more than several top of the range, name brand 55" and greater 4K TV's and I don't mind a bit. Worth every penny.