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Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

RayDunzl

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He says "I'm going directly from the DAC to a pair of Airmotiv 4s powered monitors in both cases. "
 

nearfielder

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As Timbo2 implies, this is a DAC only. You still need an amplifier to drive a headphone or speakers. Was your hifime DAC+headphone amp?
Yes, I have powered monitors so the amp is included. The monitors are expecting line level output. All things being equal, the D10 is a lot lower in level than the HiFiMe DAC. It's not like it doesn't work. It's just that it's dramatically lower relative to the HiFiMe DAC.
 

RayDunzl

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Is the ultimate volume loud enough (or even the same)?

If so, there's just a different curve on the volume control on the two DACs.

---

A reviewer says "Each Airmotive 4 has balanced and single-ended inputs and a number of adjustments: a level-trim control to optimize the amplifier gain for the input source, and ..."


The Manual says:
1528327510170.png
 
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nearfielder

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Is the ultimate volume loud enough (or even the same)?

If so, there's just a different curve on the volume control on the two DACs.
Yeah, the D10 can get loud enough at near the max sometimes. Just seems a little odd, but maybe it's just my expectation bias. I definitely can hear sonic differences between the two, so wanted to make sure everything is optimal before I declare one the favorite.
 

RayDunzl

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The two DACs may have different maximum output voltage levels, and may have different "curves" to the volume control. The speakers have a control to take the maximum voltage level into account.

Although 2Vrms is the "standard" for a consumer digital line out, it isn't always so.
 

nearfielder

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Is the ultimate volume loud enough (or even the same)?

If so, there's just a different curve on the volume control on the two DACs.

---

A reviewer says "Each Airmotive 4 has balanced and single-ended inputs and a number of adjustments: a level-trim control to optimize the amplifier gain for the input source, and ..."


The Manual says:
View attachment 13069
Oh, interesting. I had never even noticed that little trim knob. I will try that out tonight! Thanks for your help, Ray.
 

dsivier

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as i w
Hey gang, I ordered this DAC based on this review and thread and have a question specifically for Mac users. This is replacing (or currently challenging to unseat?) one of the very budget HiFiMe Sabre DACs. The HiFiMe DAC was like $29 when I ordered it a few years ago. It may be the $42 model now. Not sure.

Anyway, my question for Mac users: The output level of the D10 on my Mac is dramatically lower than the HiFime DAC. Like I don't get ANY sound at all until I'm about 40% on the Mac volume level. Sometimes I'm at like 75-90% to get decent output levels from quieter recordings. By comparison, the HiFiMe DAC is typically ear splitting at about 50% volume on my Mac, all other things being equal.

Is this just normal for this DAC on a Mac? I don't want to comment on sound comparisons until I know if that's normal or whether there's something odd going on with my setup. I almost thought it wasn't working until I really cranked it up. Is it just me? I'm running a slightly older version of MacOS with El Capitan, so not sure if that could be part of it. I'm going directly from the DAC to a pair of Airmotiv 4s powered monitors in both cases.

Any thoughts/help appreciated/
dear
as i wrote D10 is connected to a Mac Pro 5.1 on front USB port, Mac is running High Sierra and Jriver MC24, usb cable is and USB CABLE ! the two out of D10 are going to Krell KAV 300i that is driving the two Maggies, RCA cable is at now an Amazon stupid cable.
The out level looks ok (4 or 5 LED volume on Krell will produce a very high pressure on the room)
Still writing this is a very nice DAC compared to price
i can add (if can help) at 192 to 384khz compares to 44khz volume must be increased, but the DSD/flac files are different then no same source, also Musicscope show lower level on DSD track
i want add !!!!! D10 (for the price) is one of the best (easy, with display showing for old like me rate!) DAC for my first impression, is transparent, at low volume is nice, the Carmina Burana is going low and high quick, so difficult to explain feeling, sorry
if you need any data coming from my Mac just ask, but i never do nothing, just connect D10 and changed Jriver out.
just adding
for my experience DAC volume is preset all the time to 100%, i cannot control via Mac D10 out, is gray ! out loud only on Krell.
 
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Snarfie

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Are there D10 users that already have switch their opamp if so from a listning point of view what are the diffrences
 

Krunok

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Are there D10 users that already have switch their opamp if so from a listning point of view what are the diffrences

Heh.. If you will be able to hear any difference after switching the op amp that would mean your new op amp is oscillating or having some other stability issue. :D
 

Snarfie

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Heh.. If you will be able to hear any difference after switching the op amp that would mean your new op amp is oscillating or having some other stability issue. :D
So you say it does not make sence that the D10 can change Opamps?. Hm that needs another topic i guess :rolleyes:
 

Krunok

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So you say it does not make sence that the D10 can change Opamps?. Hm that needs another topic i guess :rolleyes:

It almost never does. If the DAC is so bad that it would then it would make more sense to swap the whole DAC instead of ap amps.
 

Snarfie

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It almost never does. If the DAC is so bad that it would then it would make more sense to swap the whole DAC instead of ap amps.
Let's wait on Amirm measurments consiting of different Opamps (from a technical point of view) still would be interesting to hear from D10 owners if they notice any diffrence. A difference that does not has to be big (i don't expect that) but posibile some different in (3D) stage placement more or less space around voices instruments. Bit thighter or less tighter bass etc etc. For instance i have high sentive speakers an Opamp that could tamme the highs slightly could have my preference.
 

Krunok

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Let's wait on Amirm measurments consiting of different Opamps (from a technical point of view) still would be interesting to hear from D10 owners if they notice any diffrence. A difference that does not has to be big (i don't expect that) but posibile some different in (3D) stage placement more or less space around voices instruments. Bit thighter or less tighter bass etc etc. For instance i have high sentive speakers an Opamp that could tamme the highs slightly could have my preference.

Whatever difference he measures you won't be able to hear it, unless the new op amp is having some serious trouble, in which case the measurement will very clearly show it.

Swapping op amps is a myth without any technical proves and a marketing trick.

If you wan't to "tame" your highs you can consider a DAC with option to change output filter. As for "tighter bass" I can only recommend to check different speakers that would more suite your taste as that really has nothing to do with op amps used in modern DACs.
 
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amirm

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I can do it with the new analyzer. Alas, I am still working on creating my test parameters so that they work well and match my previous measurements. This is proving a bit challenging as the new analyzer is really picky about stability of measurements when noise dominates (like above at low dBFS). I sort have THD measurements working but IMD is still work in progress. Remind me in a week or two and I will tackle this.
 

Krunok

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I can do it with the new analyzer. Alas, I am still working on creating my test parameters so that they work well and match my previous measurements. This is proving a bit challenging as the new analyzer is really picky about stability of measurements when noise dominates (like above at low dBFS). I sort have THD measurements working but IMD is still work in progress. Remind me in a week or two and I will tackle this.

Sure, thank you. :)
 
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amirm

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Here is some preliminary results anyway for the devices I was testing for another reason:

APx555 IMD.png


As you see, values below -40 dB are jagged on Topping D10/D50 because they are not converging due to their small values. If you ignore that roughness though, the D50 seems like Topping DX7s with that hump in mid levels. The D10 is actually superior that way without that as was the Topping DX7.
 

Nesty

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What is your recommended amplifier to match topping D10 for a desktop set-up?
 
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