tobes
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Messages
- 41
- Likes
- 46
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Review and Measurements of Benchmark DAC3
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #242
Sal is into clipping business. Usually lawn but sometimes he does that with posts....You clipped off my- that was a joke, but clearly not a good one.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 22,498
- Likes
- 41,336
I thought Sal was the Chicago Crusher? Not the Chicago Clipper.
I've been known to clip a wallet now and then.
Bet those 2 ex wife’s clipped your wallet real good ..I've been known to clip a wallet now and then.
tobes
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Messages
- 41
- Likes
- 46
Yes understood.
FWIW, the initial test I did was conducted using the same input - just swapping the interconnect to the output of the D50 or the DAC3.
Of course the change wasn't instantaneous, I had to stop the player, change over the DAC in the player settings and then move the cable and replay the music.
Obviously without a blind test there is no 'science' or 'proof' to my comment - but I thought that was implicit in my warning.
While I appreciate the measurements offered by this forum, I am unfortunate in that I hear (to my satisfaction) and appreciate the audible differences in components.
I always get a chuckle from this Gary Oliver cartoon:
I think you got some experience in that department too. LOL
Yea I guess it’s similar but I gave the money upfront
Hi John, could you write some words about the unbalanced performance. Why the measurements of Amir are so bad?
In my experience ASIO4ALL is a wrapper for Windows' "mixer bypass" mode, which means Kernel Streaming for XP and WASAPI exclusive for Vista and later. For a simple class compliant "driverless" device it usually works fine, but for some studio interfaces or gaming soundcards with dedicated DSP/FPGA chips it can result in loss of functionalities like multiclient support, sample rate switching, hardware-based SRC/mixer and so on.
I have no comment about the sidebands and linearity though.
I have no comment about the sidebands and linearity though.
If Amir doesn't want to, I'll volunteer.
If anyone else wants to loan one, I'll post the same measurement with the "official" drivers and with ASIO4ALL.
If benchmark are certain this is the issue , maybe they would send amir a DAC3 to test the theory.
I know amir is on a anti driver crusade but surely knowing why things measure the way they do when these anomaly occur is of merit, if for no other reason it furthers understanding though investigation and gives us all something to talk about keeping the discussion measurement focused to boot.
From this article on Bencmark site it seems they included unbalanced connections only for compatibility purpose. Considering the impressive SNR figures of their DAC 3 and AHB2 amp one must admit it does make sense not to care much about unbalanced connections.
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/balanced-vs-unbalanced-analog-interfaces
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/balanced-vs-unbalanced-analog-interfaces
Going from a good fully-differential ("balanced") circuit to single-ended (SE) can be a PITA. It can be a lot harder than it seems so I can understand from an engineering and cost perspective why SE might not be as good on a given design. It is not generally as simple as just taking one side of the output -- you lose all the common-mode rejection and distortion reduction, often become much more sensitive to the load, and can upset the operating point of the differential circuit. It takes extra circuitry and is hard to make as clean as the balanced design. They are often rather different circuits, not like many quasi-differential approaches, with fundamentally different designs. To use an ugly analogy, turning a sports car into a pickup truck is not easy and performance for one or both uses is often sacrificed. They are each great at what they do, what they were designed for, but do not easily fit the other role. Choose wisely for your application.
FWIWFM - Don
FWIWFM - Don
raband
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2018
- Messages
- 22
- Likes
- 30
Ah, think you're right.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #259
Yes, the unit was returned to his owner. As Thomas says, I am happy to test another unit if Benchmark sends me one. I will test it with their drivers and ASIO4ALL and report. And of course any difference in jitter performance.
I looked at Benchmark Jitter test in the manual and unfortunately it is done completely different then mine. It uses a 10 kHz tone, bandpass filtered unlike my measurements that are done with J-test signal. What difference that can make, I don't know. Here is their results for reference:
I looked at Benchmark Jitter test in the manual and unfortunately it is done completely different then mine. It uses a 10 kHz tone, bandpass filtered unlike my measurements that are done with J-test signal. What difference that can make, I don't know. Here is their results for reference:
IMHO, the manufaturer provided driver is part of the product and it certainly makes sense to test with it as that is how the manufacturer intended the product to be used. Testing the product with WASAPI also makes sense as that is the standard to which we expect manufaturers to comply as well, while testing with ASIO4ALL is eh, well..
Installing so many drivers will eventually make a horrible mess of your PC but maybe creating a restore point before installing a driver and performing a system restore after you're finished can keep the situation under control.
