Review and Measurements of Topping DX7s DAC and Headphone Amp

[snip3r77]

What headphones are you intending to use and what's your budget?

The only obvious downside to the DX7s amp is the 10 ohm output impedance, which makes it less suitable for low (<80 ohm) impedance headphones and IEMs.

I want my amp to power up my IEMs ( may not suit the 10ohm OP ) and also my HD600.

 

[derp1n]

The Schiit Magni 3 is pretty good for $99 USD. Or the Objective 2, but it's probably more expensive (at least the JDS Labs build is, the Massdrop version is $95 USD). Arcam rHead is a fancier looking option if you can find it at <$220 USD, but the volume control isn't great for quieter listening with sensitive IEMs because the attenuation is limited before it mutes. Massdrop THX AAA-789 looks like it'll be a very good option, but the wait time is quite long.

 

[jsmiller58]

I want my amp to power up my IEMs ( may not suit the 10ohm OP ) and also my HD600.

If you move quickly, the O2 amp is on Massdrop for $95. But looks like the drop will end at around 10AM Pacific, 1PM Eastern on Thursday morning. This is a good all around basic amp in my opinion which will take you quite a ways on your audiophile journey till you figure out how much you want to scale up.

As to DAC... I really like my D50. Have been using it with my MD LCX and MD CTH and the combinations sound superb. Just got the DX7s this week so haven’t had real A/B testing time, but so far it is an enjoyable listen through those same amps. Will be interesting to see if the LCX sounds any different powered by the balanced outputs of the DX7s vs Single Ended outputs of the D50 - my guess is no... Not yet spent time with the built in amp because of the aforementioned high impedance outputs...

Just my 0.02

 

[snip3r77]

If you move quickly, the O2 amp is on Massdrop for $95. But looks like the drop will end at around 10AM Pacific, 1PM Eastern on Thursday morning. This is a good all around basic amp in my opinion which will take you quite a ways on your audiophile journey till you figure out how much you want to scale up.

As to DAC... I really like my D50. Have been using it with my MD LCX and MD CTH and the combinations sound superb. Just got the DX7s this week so haven’t had real A/B testing time, but so far it is an enjoyable listen through those same amps. Will be interesting to see if the LCX sounds any different powered by the balanced outputs of the DX7s vs Single Ended outputs of the D50 - my guess is no... Not yet spent time with the built in amp because of the aforementioned high impedance outputs...

Just my 0.02

Would like to see your feedback btw D50 ( combo with your MD amps ) and D7S when you find the time. Thanks

 

[Pavano]

Neither the Gungir MB or Mjolnir 2 have been measured on ASR. Both the Bifrost MB and Yggdrasil/Yggdrasil v2 have been measured, neither performed well for the price and the Bifrost performance is potentially bad enough to be audible.

I fell for Schiit once, with the Bifrost.
And when I used it first after burn in, I was so underwhelmed by what I was hearing. It's like a thick veil is covering all sounds.
The worst product I still own because I don't have the courage to sell this POS.

 

[jsmiller58]

Would like to see your feedback btw D50 ( combo with your MD amps ) and D7S when you find the time. Thanks

Will do the D50 vs DX7S DACs compare with the CTH and LCX amps this weekend and post my observations here!

 

[jsmiller58]

Question for any DX7s owners out there...

In DAC mode, is it OK to connect both the single ended and the balanced outputs on the back of the unit at the same time? They would both be feeding the same amp that has an input selector so only one of the DX7s outputs would actually be used by the amp at a time, but if it is a bad idea to connect to both DX7s outputs at the same time I would rather not risk it!

Using the input select on my amp I could easily check out the sound difference between SE and balanced inputs...

 

[Jimmy]

I don't think that 95$ is cheap for the O2, you can find them cheaper on ebay more often than not, and the O2 tends to clip with hot sources unless the gain is reduced.

There was a very good and cheap alternative for powering iems and low impedance (not power hungry) headphones, the Sabaj PHA1, but sadly it has been discontinued, price was about 25$, but now it's almost impossible to find, new or second hand:

http://dieselpowered.ca/2018/sabaj-pha1-teardown/

 

[jsmiller58]

Will do the D50 vs DX7S DACs compare with the CTH and LCX amps this weekend and post my observations here!

[edited for better clarity]

I didn’t do as much listening over the weekend as I had hoped, but a few listening impressions to give here... I don’t know enough about how to listen critically, or how to describe what I am hearing, to write real reviews, so simply take these as my impressions. While these are completely subjective views, I am trying to go about it in a somewhat structured way.

Setup: Tidal playing from Win 10 laptop. DX7s and D50 doing DAC duty over USB, Massdrop CTH and Massdrop LCX as amps. Switches used between the DACs and amps to make things easier to change. Took advantage of the LCX single ended pass through to hook the output of the switch the DACs was on to the LCX and through that to the CTH. I had the single ended output of both amps hooked up to another switch and could very quickly switch between the amps in mid-song with no delay. While both DACs were also on a switch, DAC switching was just a little more involved as I would have to stop the music, flip the switch to feed the right DAC to the amps, and then change the source in Tidal. For headphones I only used one pair - my Elex - as they are pretty revealing. The Elex are, to me, a relatively bright sounding set of headphones, and where there is sibilance in a track it will find and highlight it. They also have decent mids and bass compared to my other cans, so a good choice out of my collection to help me discern any differences... I will go back later and try with a few more. Volume matching was done by ear, but got close enough that I could detect no difference when switching real time back and forth between amps. I also could tell no difference in volume when switching between DACs (though that process was a little more involved so more prone to error if there is some output difference between the DACs).

Most of the time I did get was testing single ended vs single ended as DAC inputs into the two amps, and listening with a single ended cable on the Elex. More testing needed for single (D50) vs balanced outputs (DX7s), and using balanced cable on my Elex (as well as using other headphones). Probably should switch the filters around as well.

A couple of other notes. While having read through the measurents that Amir did on both of these amps, I have forgotten the details and chose to not re-read them to try to avoid any bias creeping in. I do recall (though might be mistaken) that the D50 measures slightly better than then DX7s and I think that the DX7s single ended measures slightly better than the balanced (but that is from memory and I have chosen to not go back and confirm). Also, this was sighted - nobody there to mix it up for me, so I was always aware of the configuration. Oh, yeah, and my ears are 50 something years old, so they will have some limitations!

Bottom line of the observations in single ended output mode... wow, there is very little to no discernible difference to my ears on the music I was testing. Maybe, just maybe, the DX7s was a touch more full sounding in quieter passages and possibly a tiny bit brighter or clearer, but I cannot be certain and that was not 100% repeatable. I suppose that should not come as a shocker - same DAC chip used, and same DAC manufacturer, and top end of their line, my guess means that there is probably little design difference, at least on the single ended part of the implementation. I tried, really I tried, to hear differences, but I couldn’t. Tonally they were the same, noise that I could detect (which was none) they were the same, etc. Music choices ranged from country to rock to classical, male and female vocals, orchestras and opera.

If you just need a single ended DAC, I can’t see why you would buy, between these two, more than the D50. Yes, that comes to you directly from Captain Obvious! But I wanted to establish that as a baseline before I do the compare of D50 (single ended) and DX7s (balanced).

A word on the amps I used... The CTH has single ended only input, while the LCX has single and balanced inputs. Both have a balanced output but on the CTH that is just a courtesy output. As I mentioned I spent the bulk of my time with both being fed single ended, and with headphones using a single ended cable. There is a difference between these amps, but not really a very big one. Most significant is I found that the CTH would roll off some of that sibilance I could hear in some tracks compared to the LCX. It was still there (it is the tracks - I can also hear it on multiple cans with these tracks) but I could hear a noticeable difference only on sibilant tracks. Other than that, though, the differences in most of the frequency range were pretty subtle (I could tell a slight difference that I really couldn’t describe well when switching between the amps, but other than where there was sibilance in a track the difference was really minor). I think that owning both is probably unnecessary and would just go with the LCX since it is more versatile with the balanced inputs, but to draw that conclusion I would need to do more pairings with other headphones. (Yes, I did in the prior paragraph say get the D50 which is single ended, and LCX which is balanced... but those two statements come with their own caveats - D50 if what you want is just single ended, and LCX if you want flexibility, and that before I have checked out the LCX when fed balanced and outputting to a balanced headphone... so that last recommendation is still subject to more testing )

I did play just a little bit with the balanced output of the DX7s vs the single ended output of the D50 using just the LCX, and just single ended cable on the Elex. But I need to listen to more before sharing my observations. Then I will move on to comparing both with the balanced cable on the Elex.

More later.

 

[jsmiller58]

[edited for better clarity]

I didn’t do as much listening over the weekend as I had hoped, but a few listening impressions to give here... I don’t know enough about how to listen critically, or how to describe what I am hearing, to write real reviews, so simply take these as my impressions. While these are completely subjective views, I am trying to go about it in a somewhat structured way.

Setup: Tidal playing from Win 10 laptop. DX7s and D50 doing DAC duty over USB, Massdrop CTH and Massdrop LCX as amps. Switches used between the DACs and amps to make things easier to change. Took advantage of the LCX single ended pass through to hook the output of the switch the DACs was on to the LCX and through that to the CTH. I had the single ended output of both amps hooked up to another switch and could very quickly switch between the amps in mid-song with no delay. While both DACs were also on a switch, DAC switching was just a little more involved as I would have to stop the music, flip the switch to feed the right DAC to the amps, and then change the source in Tidal. For headphones I only used one pair - my Elex - as they are pretty revealing. The Elex are, to me, a relatively bright sounding set of headphones, and where there is sibilance in a track it will find and highlight it. They also have decent mids and bass compared to my other cans, so a good choice out of my collection to help me discern any differences... I will go back later and try with a few more. Volume matching was done by ear, but got close enough that I could detect no difference when switching real time back and forth between amps. I also could tell no difference in volume when switching between DACs (though that process was a little more involved so more prone to error if there is some output difference between the DACs).

Most of the time I did get was testing single ended vs single ended as DAC inputs into the two amps, and listening with a single ended cable on the Elex. More testing needed for single (D50) vs balanced outputs (DX7s), and using balanced cable on my Elex (as well as using other headphones). Probably should switch the filters around as well.

A couple of other notes. While having read through the measurents that Amir did on both of these amps, I have forgotten the details and chose to not re-read them to try to avoid any bias creeping in. I do recall (though might be mistaken) that the D50 measures slightly better than then DX7s and I think that the DX7s single ended measures slightly better than the balanced (but that is from memory and I have chosen to not go back and confirm). Also, this was sighted - nobody there to mix it up for me, so I was always aware of the configuration. Oh, yeah, and my ears are 50 something years old, so they will have some limitations!

Bottom line of the observations in single ended output mode... wow, there is very little to no discernible difference to my ears on the music I was testing. Maybe, just maybe, the DX7s was a touch more full sounding in quieter passages and possibly a tiny bit brighter or clearer, but I cannot be certain and that was not 100% repeatable. I suppose that should not come as a shocker - same DAC chip used, and same DAC manufacturer, and top end of their line, my guess means that there is probably little design difference, at least on the single ended part of the implementation. I tried, really I tried, to hear differences, but I couldn’t. Tonally they were the same, noise that I could detect (which was none) they were the same, etc. Music choices ranged from country to rock to classical, male and female vocals, orchestras and opera.

If you just need a single ended DAC, I can’t see why you would buy, between these two, more than the D50. Yes, that comes to you directly from Captain Obvious! But I wanted to establish that as a baseline before I do the compare of D50 (single ended) and DX7s (balanced).

A word on the amps I used... The CTH has single ended only input, while the LCX has single and balanced inputs. Both have a balanced output but on the CTH that is just a courtesy output. As I mentioned I spent the bulk of my time with both being fed single ended, and with headphones using a single ended cable. There is a difference between these amps, but not really a very big one. Most significant is I found that the CTH would roll off some of that sibilance I could hear in some tracks compared to the LCX. It was still there (it is the tracks - I can also hear it on multiple cans with these tracks) but I could hear a noticeable difference only on sibilant tracks. Other than that, though, the differences in most of the frequency range were pretty subtle (I could tell a slight difference that I really couldn’t describe well when switching between the amps, but other than where there was sibilance in a track the difference was really minor). I think that owning both is probably unnecessary and would just go with the LCX since it is more versatile with the balanced inputs, but to draw that conclusion I would need to do more pairings with other headphones. (Yes, I did in the prior paragraph say get the D50 which is single ended, and LCX which is balanced... but those two statements come with their own caveats - D50 if what you want is just single ended, and LCX if you want flexibility, and that before I have checked out the LCX when fed balanced and outputting to a balanced headphone... so that last recommendation is still subject to more testing )

I did play just a little bit with the balanced output of the DX7s vs the single ended output of the D50 using just the LCX, and just single ended cable on the Elex. But I need to listen to more before sharing my observations. Then I will move on to comparing both with the balanced cable on the Elex.

More later.

OK, just a short follow up rather than another installment of War and Peace...

Listening to my Elex (with single ended and balanced cables), driven by the Massdrop LCX, fed by both the DX7s (single ended and balanced) and D50 (single ended) I really struggle to hear any difference between them.

Conclusions: 1. Both of these DACs are, unsurprisingly given their great measurements, very good. 2. If I were building my system from scratch I would have no issue going with single ended D50 as opposed to the pricier DX7s. But, that does not mean the DX7s is a bad investment! 3. My ears are probably half deaf anyway!

To make all of this relevant to the objectivist nature of this forum, I want to add something else... Some may have heard the quote from The Shadow, "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" This is relevant because in the end while we think we know something due to experience with it, the reality is if we rely solely on our subjective experiences we know only a small subset - that is how something behaves exactly in the same circumstances. By measuring hardware we can get a good idea of how it will behave under many more circumstances; truly a view into the soul of the hardware. So, if you like a DAC with your current audio chain, but if measurement shows great flaws it might be that you just haven't yet tripped over the flaws and will eventually be disappointed as the rest of your chain evolves. On the other hand if the DAC measures well, and you like how it sounds with the audio chain you have listened to it with, then you can have greater confidence in its future performance under different circumstances.

DX7s and D50 both measure well. To me they sound great with the limited subjective testing I can do. Thus, I can confidently say I have great confidence that these will perform well for me even as I evolve my audio chain!

 

[lucadoc]

Thank you for your share, very interesting

 

[jsmiller58]

Thank you for your share, very interesting

If you are looking for a new DAC, either of these are great. Not exactly cheap, but way less than the highest end, and perform quite well in comparison to even those costing 5X more, from what I have read. Not that I have ever played with that class of DAC - would love to, but I have higher priorities (one child in Law School, and helping another one with their Law School loans, puts a lot into perspective!)

 

[lucadoc]

To tell the truth I put an order on Massdrop for the Dx7s and I've already bought its remote but... In the meantime I discovered that a lot of products on Massdrop have only 30 days guarantee . So I canceled my order.

I know well that children are the best investment in our life so we have to choose priorities

 

[gvl]

To tell the truth I put an order on Massdrop for the Dx7s and I've already bought its remote but... In the meantime I discovered that a lot of products on Massdrop have only 30 days guarantee . So I canceled my order.

I know well that children are the best investment in our life so we have to choose priorities

In the US many credit cards include extended warranty for products that you charge on them. Also Topping would likely take care of you past the 30 days, but you'd be out for shipping the broken unit to China.

 

[lucadoc]

Yes I asked them and had the same answer from Topping , but I'm living in France and I don't want to have a product without warranty

 

[Veri]

Yes I asked them and had the same answer from Topping , but I'm living in France and I don't want to have a product without warranty

Can't you order via audiophonics and let them handle the warranty ?

 

[amirm]

Yes I asked them and had the same answer from Topping , but I'm living in France and I don't want to have a product without warranty

Chances of DACs dying during their warranty period is very, very low. So if they show up working, you really don't need to worry about warranty unless you are extremely unlucky.

Power amplifiers is where I would worry about warranty and local support.

 

[lucadoc]

I was scared because a dx7s owner had a problem after 6 months and surprise : no support. It was 60 days indeed.

For Audiophonics it is just another price 500€ plus delivery here

 

[jsmiller58]

Chances of DACs dying during their warranty period is very, very low. So if they show up working, you really don't need to worry about warranty unless you are extremely unlucky.

Power amplifiers is where I would worry about warranty and local support.

When I buy from Massdrop without the manufacturer warranty I always look at the price discount as in part funding "self insurance"... If I am really worried about service and warranty then i always pay a bit more for a different channel... Otherwise it is like all insurance, somewhat of a roll of the dice!

 

[amirm]

When I buy from Massdrop without the manufacturer warranty I always look at the price discount as in part funding "self insurance"... If I am really worried about service and warranty then i always pay a bit more for a different channel... Otherwise it is like all insurance, somewhat of a roll of the dice!

That is the right way to look at it.