Major issues with Tesla Model 3

[jhaider]

But nothing can make a line of traffic nose to tail fun to drive.

Good tunes on a good car stereo?

Some of you may know Tesla released a lot of Model 3 reservations for configuration late last week. The scuttlebutt is that they had delayed deliveries so as to push the magic 200k registration (which triggers the beginning of the end of Federal EV tax credits for Tesla) into July, thereby preserving the full Federal tax credit until Q1 2019.

To get before 2019 you have to get the long range battery and "premium" interior. Not a huge deal, because both seem pretty important. I convinced her to stick with the stock 18" wheels instead of the upgrade 19s, because Atlanta has third-world roads that are often poorly patched with steel plates. (A couple weeks ago on vacation we drove from Ankara to Goreme, and I was completely shocked by how much better Turkish roads are than our home roads.)

To my surprise, they've already emailed her a VIN. We'll see how long it takes for delivery.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Good tunes on a good car stereo?

Some of you may know Tesla released a lot of Model 3 reservations for configuration late last week. The scuttlebutt is that they had delayed deliveries so as to push the magic 200k registration (which triggers the beginning of the end of Federal EV tax credits for Tesla) into July, thereby preserving the full Federal tax credit until Q1 2019.

To get before 2019 you have to get the long range battery and "premium" interior. Not a huge deal, because both seem pretty important. I convinced her to stick with the stock 18" wheels instead of the upgrade 19s, because Atlanta has third-world roads that are often poorly patched with steel plates. (A couple weeks ago on vacation we drove from Ankara to Goreme, and I was completely shocked by how much better Turkish roads are than our home roads.)

To my surprise, they've already emailed her a VIN. We'll see how long it takes for delivery.

Funny, music in traffic never did it for me. Good music while the driving is good is a syngeristically good effect.

My brother is supposed to get his model 3 next week. VIN number a couple weeks ago.

A railroad depot near me has suddenly filled up with about 800 of them last week. I've seen a few trucks hauling them in a state without a dealer. So yeah, I think they are about to let loose on the supply.

BTW, in case you haven't seen it:

http://pluginsites.org/7500-ev-tax-credit-limit/

https://rosen.house.gov/media/press...n-extend-electric-vehicle-tax-credit-10-years

A bill to extend the tax credit on EVs to 10 years.

 

[jhaider]

BTW, in case you haven't seen it:

http://pluginsites.org/7500-ev-tax-credit-limit/

https://rosen.house.gov/media/press...n-extend-electric-vehicle-tax-credit-10-years

A bill to extend the tax credit on EVs to 10 years.

By a Vermont Democrat.

My hunch is that such a possibility won’t even be discussed when Agent Orange has his annual performance review and gets his marching orders for next year in Helsinki.

 

[Blumlein 88]

By a Vermont Democrat.

My hunch is that such a possibility won’t even be discussed when Agent Orange has his annual performance review and gets his marching orders for next year in Helsinki.

Well it has a better chance than if either of the Vermont Senators were behind it.

 

[Cosmik]

http://www.audioxpress.com/news/ana...und-for-electric-and-hybrid-electric-vehicles

Electric Vehicle Warning Sound System (EVWSS) firmware enables automobile manufacturers in North America and other regions to comply with future safety regulations mandating external engine sound for EVs and HEVs travelling at low speeds.

...The ADSP-BF706 can also be used to create in-cabin engine sound to contribute to an improved driving experience for vehicle owners.

Not specifically Tesla, but I thought it interesting. Or maybe ironic.

 

[RayDunzl]

Can you pick your sound?

 

[Wombat]

You too can have it:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sound-R...und+effect&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

 

[Blumlein 88]

Actually many newer vehicles have sound of the engine added thru the stereo or piped in with ducts that have valves to open or close them. Have done this for several years now. Ford was infamously noted because all 4 cylinder vehicles had V6 sounds added to the stereo. While V6 engines serenaded drivers with V8 sounds. Some have solenoid like devices to add a little vibration to the firewall when the engine is putting out a fair amount of power so drivers have the feel of power. BMW and VW took that approach. Cars have gotten too quiet, smooth and vibration free.

Even Porsches have this problem. There is a duct letting engine sound into their rear engine cars which is controlled by a valve. Under heavy acceleration it simply opens a metal duct connecting the cockpit to the engine bay.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Actually many newer vehicles have sound of the engine added thru the stereo or piped in with ducts that have valves to open or close them. Have done this for several years now. Ford was infamously noted because all 4 cylinder vehicles had V6 sounds added to the stereo. While V6 engines serenaded drivers with V8 sounds. Some have solenoid like devices to add a little vibration to the firewall when the engine is putting out a fair amount of power so drivers have the feel of power. BMW and VW took that approach. Cars have gotten too quiet, smooth and vibration free.

Even Porsches have this problem. There is a duct letting engine sound into their rear engine cars which is controlled by a valve. Under heavy acceleration it simply opens a metal duct connecting the cockpit to the engine bay.

True, and I hate everything about the idea, personally.

Mind you I do have an old fashioned sports car which makes so much noise a radio is pointless as well as a plug in hybrid...

 

[Sal1950]

True, and I hate everything about the idea, personally.

AMEN, ain't that some dumb, silly schitt.
Buy a battery operated toy and use the radio for real engine sounds.
Kind of like putting a playing card in the spokes of your bicycle.
How low can they sink.

 

[jhaider]

We were supposed to pick up my wife's Model 3 yesterday. Second try. Her first delivery date was the previous Saturday, but they couldn't get her the purchase agreement to sign before COB the day before. So they rescheduled. The Tesla shop near us was so packed full of cars waiting to be delivered that there was barely room to park her trade in.

We ended up refusing delivery. It had a small dent on the driver's side rear quarter panel that looked like something fell on it at some point. and there was a pinpoint spot on the passenger side rear quarter panel that looked like there might have been a speck of dust in the paint booth. The latter was barely visible, but concerning to me as a corrosion risk. We were not the only people that afternoon to refuse delivery. Someone with a red one refused delivery because it had a dent on a fender crease and the detailer left swirls in the hood. Door rash is going to happen, but before you even drive it off the lot?

Otherwise, panel gaps were what you'd expect from a high end car in 2018. The interior was also well put together. It looks absolutely stunning in blue. Prep was a bit wanting, though unlike the red car above the swirls on my wife's disappeared when I wiped the hood with a microfiber cloth.

Tesla is going to fix the issues, and hopefully she will have the car in a couple weeks. If they don't resolve it properly, either they will refund the deposit, or worst case scenario there will be litigation.

Overall pretty disappointing for a $60,000+ car. It's pretty clear that they have issues scaling up to deliver all of the M3s. That said, while we were waiting we chatted with two people in the waiting room. One was an IT business owner who had an X. The other was a physician with an S. Both of them raved about how much they loved their cars. Assuming they resolve the issues I think she's going to love it. I hope she will, anyway.

 

[maverickronin]

Does anyone else think that electric cars are just a fad? There is essentially no way that the power grids of developed countries can be overhauled with increased the generation and distribution capacity that will be required to get rid of internal combustion engines within 30 years without pouring very large percentages of GDP into the project.

I think the future is probably going to keep internal combustion engines but replace gasoline and diesel carbon neutral synthetic/bio fuels. This seems the most reasonable to me since we already have the infrastructure in place to effectively distribute them. It might require some breakthroughs in genetic engineering to produce such fuels at reasonable prices but I think that's a lot more likely than hundreds of additional power plants being built in the next 3 decades (and they'd have to be nuclear if your primary goal is to reduce CO2 emissions...) and/or replacing long distance transmission lines with superconductors.

If anyone thinks electric cars are going to take off anywhere outside of the densest cities you you see the infrastructure growing to accommodate it?

 

[garbulky]

Does anyone else think that electric cars are just a fad?

No way. Things look like they are just getting started. Now I don't live in the country or drive long distances. But already you have electric vehicles that can drive over 200 miles and charge 80% in 45 minutes. That's pretty good. But for my purposes an electric vehicle would be perfect. Even in what I feel is a relatively early start for mass market electric vehicles their reliability levels are already pretty impressive. Granted there are teething challenges. Some slightly older model S's had issues with drive noise way too early where they ended up replacing the electric drive. But I haven't heard reports of it recently.

For me the most important thing is that they are getting rid of moving parts. I don't have to worry about oil changes, oxygen sensors, catalytic converters, spark plug changes, engine misfires, crankshaft sensors, leaky oil pans, bad gas cap, vacuum leaks in the hosing, you name it. All those things I've actually had to deal with. And I like that in the future I won't have to. A lot of people I know get rid of their cars after about 100,000 miles and I think that's nuts. My dream has been about more reliable cars that require less maintenance and maintenance costs. Hopefully with electric vehicles this will become a reality.

Already with a Tesla model S they've measured a 400,000 mile Tesla whose battery has only lost something like 6% (!!!) after 200,000 miles. I mean that's amazing especially considering that it was run constantly (fleet vehicle) and recharged using superchargers the whole time - against reccomendations.
https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000-miles-3-years/

 

[maverickronin]

No way. Things look like they are just getting started.

So how do you see the infrastructure to support a large number of electric vehicles coming together?

 

[garbulky]

So how do you see the infrastructure to support a large number of electric vehicles coming together?

I have no idea. Right now there doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.

 

[maverickronin]

I have no idea. Right now there doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.

There isn't an issue yet because there are so few fully electric cars. If every gasoline or diesel vehicle was replaced with an electric equivalent it would constitute a huge drain on the power grid that it isn't prepared for.

Even if you assume enough power plants are built to meet the increased demand and we manage to increase transmission capacity to match it's probably not going to actually reduce CO2 emissions anyway. Chances are that any new significant power plants that get approved in the near future are going to be coal because of irrational fear of the word 'nuclear', the fact that "green" power (solar, wind, hydro, etc) is only viable in specific locations, and nothing else can output the necessary electricity and just be plopped down wherever it's needed.

Unless the general public's opinion of nuclear energy does a quick 180 or we finally invent a working fusion generator the only real effect of moving to electric vehicles will be to slightly reduce pollution in very large cities.

 

[jhaider]

Does anyone else think that electric cars are just a fad?

No. They've already gone from "impractical eccentric rich person plaything" to "reasonably practical rich person transportation" to "well within the reach of working professionals." Battery chemistry is likely to improve, due to all the work being done on it right now. We're a battery-powered world.

Chances are that any new significant power plants that get approved in the near future are going to be coal because of irrational fear of the word 'nuclear', the fact that "green" power (solar, wind, hydro, etc) is only viable in specific locations, and nothing else can output the necessary electricity and just be plopped down wherever it's needed.

Yes, the Russian agent in the White House may want to make us like we were in the 1800s with coal. In reality, absent the heavy hand of crony capitalism forcing coal down our collective throats, new power plants are far more likely to be natural gas than coal.

 

[DonH56]

Wondered how long before the political shenanigans would start... "Russian agent"? Geez, tell it to Hillary and the DNC...

A friend of mine is waiting for his; it is a dream car for he and his wife, and they saved for a few years (plus we had some nice bonuses). At $60k effective cost (you have to get upgrades to get one anytime soon) it is beyond the means of most folk IMO. Plus a charging station, and then he does not plan to use it for longer trips because the charging infrastructure isn't there yet. Electricity is expensive here so natural gas is used for heat and cooking. That said I live in a rural area a few miles from a major interstate and 20 miles from a fairly large city and the local Wal-Mart does over a few charging spots.

 

[jhaider]

If you look around, there are a lot of $60k cars on the road. Even Chevy, Toyota, and Ford trucks get in that range! One distinction is right now you can't lease a Model 3.

I wouldn't call it my wife's "dream car," but she's had the same Civic since her first year of residency, and it's time. We're fortunate to be able to afford it.

Tell your friend not to buy a charging station. The charging electronics are built in to the Model 3. All you need is a 50A plug. It cost us about $1300 to get one put in by a Tesla-recommended electrician, but a lot of that cost was running the 50A line underground from our home to our detached carport. I suspect we will get that back when we sell this house. I find it hard to think that someone will want to buy a house in this neighborhood without charging capability soon. There are already a bunch of Tesla Model S and Model X around. I have seen a few Bolts, i3s, and Kia Soul EVs as well. There were a lot of Leafs back when Georgia had an EV credit as well, because that made a lease practically free if you had good credit. Most of those were leased and their owners have moved on to fancier cars.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Does anyone else think that electric cars are just a fad? There is essentially no way that the power grids of developed countries can be overhauled with increased the generation and distribution capacity that will be required to get rid of internal combustion engines within 30 years without pouring very large percentages of GDP into the project.

I think the future is probably going to keep internal combustion engines but replace gasoline and diesel carbon neutral synthetic/bio fuels. This seems the most reasonable to me since we already have the infrastructure in place to effectively distribute them. It might require some breakthroughs in genetic engineering to produce such fuels at reasonable prices but I think that's a lot more likely than hundreds of additional power plants being built in the next 3 decades (and they'd have to be nuclear if your primary goal is to reduce CO2 emissions...) and/or replacing long distance transmission lines with superconductors.

If anyone thinks electric cars are going to take off anywhere outside of the densest cities you you see the infrastructure growing to accommodate it?

Bio-fuels are a non-starter for anything beyond niche use. Biofuels essentially capture solar energy. The best of them are about 2% efficient at that. Crappy solar cells are 10% with good ones closer to 20%. Plus they put out electricity rather than the long complex processing required of bio-fuels.

And no, electric cars aren't equally bad on CO2 generation as regular cars. They aren't completely clean, but even with transmission losses they are a step forward. The capability to put in place electric transmission of higher efficiency is already there. It would be expensive to do it all at once. And it is possible the grid will be a bottleneck of sorts for a generation or two. But it will happen.

What is a fad (though a long lived one) is car ownership. Once fully autonomous self driving cars are worked out, ownership of your own vehicle will be on its way out. You'll have a smartphone app, ask for a ride and one will show up within 5 minutes. Electric cars with lower maintenance will be excellent for this though it could be done with IC engined cars as well. It won't be confined to the city either. Think of all the places you can buy gasoline even in rather rural areas. If those become fueling areas or charging areas for autonomous cars those things are nearly everywhere. Unlike your personal car that is unused 95% of the time, these will be heavily utilized and therefore you'll not need as many of them. Plus even without super long range electrics the range problem is solved. You want to travel 500 miles away? Buzz up your local car, take it 100 or 200 miles to the nearest autonomous depot. Hop out for a short stretch your legs session and hop into another car for another 100 or 200 miles while the one you were in charges. Rinse and repeat and you can go any range within a reasonable time. This high rate of utilization will also mean prices don't have to come all the way down the current average car price for this to be economically feasible.

This is also why I think expensive super high speed rail is a boondoggle. It is too restricted and too expensive. It won't be able to compete with an autonomous grid of transportation.