2022 Parts Express [Speaker Design Competition] - Over $300 Category

[Wolf]

Pasted from PE thread:


Unlimited:
1 Charlie Laub
2 Julian
3 Jack

Under 300:
1 PaulK
2 JohnH
3 MichaelH

Addendum: Nick also placed 2nd in under $300 with Minions, and was later corrected due to an error. Michael was then 4th, etc...

Dayton:
1 Tom Zarbo
2 JohnH
3 KeithE

Over 300:
1 Dan Neubecker
2 AdamM
3 Bill Schwefel

Fan fave:
NickS

 

[DanielT]

Pasted from PE thread:


Unlimited:
1 Charlie Laub
2 Julian
3 Jack

Under 300:
1 PaulK
2 JohnH
3 MichaelH

Addendum: Nick also placed 2nd in under $300 with Minions, and was later corrected due to an error. Michael was then 4th, etc...

Dayton:
1 Tom Zarbo
2 JohnH
3 KeithE

Over 300:
1 Dan Neubecker
2 AdamM
3 Bill Schwefel

Fan fave:
NickS

How do you pick a winner there? With such different types of constructions. I mean your DIY, given your budget and the size of the speakers, could have been the winner if those criteria were prioritized.

Incidentally, the eternal topic of discussion on ASR when it comes to reviews, how to relate to price VS performance. Take any review that Amir does and sooner or later in that review, the price-performance discussion thread will appear.
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How to rate this performance for US $100

Parts Express DIY C-Note Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Parts Express C-Note DIY Kit. It was kindly purchased, put together and shipped to me by member @Winkleswizard. A pair of these with everything you need including the cabinet "flat pack" costs just US $100. And that includes free shipping if...

audiosciencereview.com

How to rate this performance for US $10,000

Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Wilson Audio TuneTot stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs around US $10,000 (varies due to color). I am not a fan of the way the front looks without the grill. The sides though sport probably the best...

audiosciencereview.com

By the way. Here, tweeters used in the C note loudspeakers are measured. Seems to be good performance for what they cost:
"Here is a measurement I just made. Outdoors, 2m to microphone (Line Audio OM1), 250mm*550mm baffle with beveled edges, recessed element."
(not me who measured)

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Dayton audio ND25FW-4

Home

Dayton Audio ND25FW-4 1" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter with Waveguide 4 OhmThe Dayton Audio ND25FW-4 tweeter features a unique integrated round waveguide faceplate that provides a controlled directivity transition at high frequencies, reducing the effect of room reflections on the speaker's tonal...

www.parts-express.com

Edit:
Maybe the competition aspect wasn't the most important part? The most fun must have been meeting and exchanging ideas and just listening to different DIYs.

 

[Newman]

Lots more talk of directivity this year... wonder who's to blame for that?

Basically this, ASR and Erin's Audio corner seems to have changed and improved the foundation that many speakers are built upon.

So, not Toole and Olive? That’s like giving credit to the talking heads reading the news reports about new frontiers, instead of the adventurers who went out and discovered them.

 

[D!sco]

So, not Toole and Olive? That’s like giving credit to the talking heads reading the news reports about new frontiers, instead of the adventurers who went out and discovered them.

Oh definitely. Popularizing good science is just as important as discovering it, after all. What good is a discovery, even as frivolous as high fidelity audio, if no one chooses to follow it's new tenets? Going out and doing the work set out is very important.

 

[Ericglo]

So, not Toole and Olive? That’s like giving credit to the talking heads reading the news reports about new frontiers, instead of the adventurers who went out and discovered them.

I believe Toole has said there is no definitive answer on wide vs narrow dispersion. It has been discussed but never really delved into as far as I have seen. I know Dennis Murphy has talked about it and his preference. Before Erin, I think this was the most I had seen people really look at it. Erin then has done some testing. His video while very general made me realize I probably would prefer a wide dispersion. I immediately knew that it was the BMR and preferred it to the other two.

 

[Newman]

Toole clearly said wide is the way. Have you read his book?

 

[D!sco]

Funny @Ericglo, I saw the same video and liked the narrow one that turned out to be a Klipsch, but wished it had a better on-axis response. What a good demonstration.

@Newman This is a weird thing to argue about. I can't disagree with you for obvious reasons, but I don't feel like I have to defend my position so strongly in a DIY forum about a bunch of dudes getting awards in Ohio. If you don't see the influence of regular contribution by the community I'm just confused why you're posting here at all.

 

[DanielT]

More fun projects:

 

[Ericglo]

Wolf,
Did you get a chance to see the new GRS ribbon tweeters?

Toole clearly said wide is the way. Have you read his book?

Yes, but in the video with Erin IIRC he said something different.

 

[Wolf]

I saw a few there, yep.

 

[perrymarshall]

I think Perry Marshall's controlled-pattern fullrange dipole speaker is BRILLIANT. Thank you @DanielT for the heads-up.

@DanielT and @Duke

You can see extensive design details and measurements for the Bitches Brew Live Edge Dipole speakers here:

https://evo2.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Bitches_Brew_Open_Baffle_Live_Edge_Speakers.pdf

 

[Duke]

You can see extensive design details and measurements for the Bitches Brew Live Edge Dipole speakers here:

https://evo2.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Bitches_Brew_Open_Baffle_Live_Edge_Speakers.pdf

Bitchin'!

Seriously, your appreciation for radiation pattern control and the resulting system design you came up with are outstanding. Every step of the way your choices make sense to me. My jaw was dropped watching the video when the camera moved around back and I saw that you even had a rear-firing horn to correct the spectral balance of the rear-firing energy. Imo you left no stone unturned.

At this link you can see what I'm into. Obviously I'm losing pattern control as the woofer's pattern widens south of the crossover frequency. My priority in this case included the feasibility of placement within inches of the front wall (toed-in of course), the ports being individually pluggable to allow some passive shaping of the response curve south of 100 Hz or so.

Anyway I tip my virtual hat to you on your concept and its execution.

 

[D!sco]

Everything in that design screams: I have money and no time for bullshit. The rear horn is absolutely inspired. Love that it's slightly tilted upwards.

 

[Duke]

Everything in that design screams: I have money and no time for bullshit. The rear horn is absolutely inspired. Love that it's slightly tilted upwards.

Well I agree with you about the "no time for bullshit" part, but $4500 out-of-pocket is incredibly low for what he ended up with. And my guess is that @perrymarshall's build time was probably "pleasure" instead of "work", not to mention all the enjoyment in between as he rubs his hands together and cackles wickedly with glee about what he's doing to all of us manufacturers.

 

[perrymarshall]

Bitchin'!

Seriously, your appreciation for radiation pattern control and the resulting system design you came up with are outstanding. Every step of the way your choices make sense to me. My jaw was dropped watching the video when the camera moved around back and I saw that you even had a rear-firing horn to correct the spectral balance of the rear-firing energy. Imo you left no stone unturned.

At this link you can see what I'm into. Obviously I'm losing pattern control as the woofer's pattern widens south of the crossover frequency. My priority in this case included the feasibility of placement within inches of the front wall (toed-in of course), the ports being individually pluggable to allow some passive shaping of the response curve south of 100 Hz or so.

Anyway I tip my virtual hat to you on your concept and its execution.

Hi Duke, I looked at your website. Very interesting designs and thorough consideration of all kinds of subtle issues in your designs.

Your Azel tower looks like something that sounds beyond fantastic. I like the rear-pointing horn, that's clever. I heard the same or similar Faital horn combo 4 years ago from a design by Javad Shadzi with 2 8 inch woofers and it was super-high-res sound. I've been dreaming of LTH142 horn + Eminence Textreme 314 compression driver + SB 15OB350 woofer in an a-frame dipole similar to the "Beryllium Live Edge Cottonwood Dipoles" that you see if you scroll down at https://www.perrymarshall.com/speakers/ where I have write-ups on several designs. Direct link https://psma-website-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/live_edge_beryllium_dipoles.pdf.

Several of my designs have an Lpad on the tweeter on the back so we clearly have some similar ideas about radiation pattern.

No surprise that your design surpasses a lot of pricey prestigious contenders.

 

[Duke]

Hi Duke, I looked at your website. Very interesting designs and thorough consideration of all kinds of subtle issues in your designs.

Your Azel tower looks like something that sounds beyond fantastic. I like the rear-pointing horn, that's clever. I heard the same or similar Faital horn combo 4 years ago from a design by Javad Shadzi with 2 8 inch woofers and it was super-high-res sound. I've been dreaming of LTH142 horn + Eminence Textreme 314 compression driver + SB 15OB350 woofer in an a-frame dipole similar to the "Beryllium Live Edge Cottonwood Dipoles" that you see if you scroll down at https://www.perrymarshall.com/speakers/ where I have write-ups on several designs. Direct link https://psma-website-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/live_edge_beryllium_dipoles.pdf.

Several of my designs have an Lpad on the tweeter on the back so we clearly have some similar ideas about radiation pattern.

No surprise that your design surpasses a lot of pricey prestigious contenders.

Hi Perry,

Thank you!

And thanks for the links - wow, BEAUTIFUL speakers!!

(I had a couple of articles in SpeakerBuilder in the late '80's, and look where I ended up... be careful, you're on a slippery slope!!)

The 16-ohm Eminence Textremes are better than the 8-ohm ones, for our purposes. The 16-ohm version uses a thinner voice coil wire to get the higher impedance, and thinner = lighter, and lighter = a little bit better tippy-top-end. If you've eyeballed Vance Dickason's measurements of the 8-ohm Eminence Textreme, you may have noticed that its waterfall plot is competitive with, if not superior to, any of the Beryllium compression drivers he's measured. The settling time is very fast. Eminence tells me that they consider its main selling point to be durability, in that stadium installations and such will not need to have drivers replaced or changed out as often. That's not a bad thing either! It will need some EQ, but so does everything else, and I doubt that intimidates you.

The Eminence Textreme measures a little bit better on the 18Sound XT1464, less pattern-narrowing at the very top end. But I like the large radius round-over of the LTH142, it seems to image a bit better (something which cannot be documented with measurements!), so that's the direction I'm going with my current project. I've also had some wooden 1.4" throat Oblate Spheroid horns made, but they are MUCH more expensive than the other two.

My first dipole is still down the road a bit; I have some of the boards cut but need to finish up a couple of other projects first.

Anyway GREAT to meet you, I love your work, and hope never to compete against it!!