Bargain DAC Suggestions?

[dc655321]

I am looking for a DAC which does not have an emphasis in the upper frequency ranges.

Do you have some examples of DACs that demonstrate this emphasis?
If audible, it should be easily measurable.

The only unit I've seen measured on this site with an emphasis (+ gain) anywhere in its bandwidth was the Shozy (Alien?).

 

[baxo]

Welcome to the forum. I have tested the XtremePro/Speaka which did very well and are similarly priced: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-speaka-usb-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2423/

They all seem to be the same.

Do you mean this one is the same as speaka?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lus...id=5d79eea4-91af-47fb-bcad-dfe3f20f853d&tpp=1

 

[amirm]

Do you mean this one is the same as speaka?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lus...id=5d79eea4-91af-47fb-bcad-dfe3f20f853d&tpp=1

Yes. Speaka is hard to get but Xtremepro seems available: https://www.ebay.com/i/173386580010?chn=ps

 

[Ron Texas]

Do you have some examples of DACs that demonstrate this emphasis?
If audible, it should be easily measurable.

The only unit I've seen measured on this site with an emphasis (+ gain) anywhere in its bandwidth was the Shozy (Alien?).

This sort of complaint is most often made about ESS chip dacs prior to the latest generation. It probably can be measured, but it isn't going to show up as a deviation in frequency response.

 

[dc655321]

This sort of complaint is most often made about ESS chip dacs prior to the latest generation.

Yes. That meme is prolific. And complete BS in my experience.

It probably can be measured, but it isn't going to show up as a deviation in frequency response.

Where else would an audible "trend" show up other than in the freq response?
The only other thing that comes to mind is IMD due to driving a device to clipping (and aliasing).

 

[amirm]

Harmonic distortion can cause brightness (due to increase in high frequency components) but there is nothing remotely like that in ESS output.

 

[Ron Texas]

Harmonic distortion can cause brightness (due to increase in high frequency components) but there is nothing remotely like that in ESS output.

I have a Grace M9xx dac. Using it line out with LS50's certain notes in female vocals sound hard, harsh or wrong. It could be a high frequency emphasis or something else. It's pretty obvious because when I use an Audioengine D1 on line out the problem goes away. I had the same problem once with a Dragonfly Black playing through B&W 685 S2 speakers. Both the Grace and DF Black sounded fine with headphones.

I may be describing the effect incorrectly. The complaint or variations on it pop up all over the place. What I am hearing may be the same as or different from the ESS "glare". It it can be heard it can be measured, but where to look in the measurements is beyond me.

Perhaps I should keep the D1 and downsample when I have to. There is no listening fatigue and no damage to my Master Card.

 

[Zerohour]

Ah, thanks. I thought it was another site with free shipping at that price.

I ordered it from ebay for $46 including shipping. Says July 20th to August 9th for delivery from China.

oh damn, that's quick.

though seeing the the current crop of cheapo DACs from china, does the actual DAC chip make that much of a difference (especially in terms of budget stuff).

Basically, if they used ES9028Q2M instead of the older 9018, can they lax a bit on the implementation and still be comparable?

 

[amirm]

My experience is that the chip choice has no significance. It is all about good implementation and verification of the same using measurements before I get my hands on it. Here is a 9038 based design which is not living up to its capabilities: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-da9-1-es9038pro-dac-and-headphone-amp.3618/

 

[baxo]

Yes. Speaka is hard to get but Xtremepro seems available: https://www.ebay.com/i/173386580010?chn=ps

The chip used on this cheapo chinese DAC is ES9018K2M and it's different with extremepro chip ESS9023. Do you think the sound quality is the same?

 

[amirm]

The chip used on this cheapo chinese DAC is ES9018K2M and it's different with extremepro chip ESS9023. Do you think the sound quality is the same?

I don't know without measuring it. What I can tell you is that I have tested the Speaka/XtremePro and they are good. So don't see a reason to keep searching given how cheap they are.

 

[baxo]

I don't know without measuring it. What I can tell you is that I have tested the Speaka/XtremePro and they are good. So don't see a reason to keep searching given how cheap they are.

I see your point. I was assuming that better chip may result in better sound quality.

 

[Palladium]

The chip used on this cheapo chinese DAC is ES9018K2M and it's different with extremepro chip ESS9023. Do you think the sound quality is the same?

The DAC chips used doesn't matter one bit when the end performance of the finished product is everything.

 

[Zerohour]

My experience is that the chip choice has no significance. It is all about good implementation and verification of the same using measurements before I get my hands on it. Here is a 9038 based design which is not living up to its capabilities: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-da9-1-es9038pro-dac-and-headphone-amp.3618/

Saw those measurements and was a bit surprised, given how expensive a 9038PRO DAC chip is compared to the older ones. They should've gotten the basics down before slapping that chip on.

Saying that, I do have high hopes for Breeze Audio, they seem to know their stuff. An even cheaper alternative to companies like Topping would be stupendous, despite the DIY feel of their products.

 

[baxo]

The DAC chips used doesn't matter one bit when the end performance of the finished product is everything.

That is why I would like to suggest it to be tested for the performance

 

[duo8]

Do you mean this one is the same as speaka?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lus...id=5d79eea4-91af-47fb-bcad-dfe3f20f853d&tpp=1

This one is quite different. It uses a different DAC and USB interface. The SA9023 interface chip doesn't support async USB nor does it have an interface to control the headphone amplifier. It does volume control internally afaik.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@amirm
How about the Apogee Groove. This one works with Windows and Mac.

Small little unit does up to 24/192. Uses an 8 channel ESS DAC allocated as 4 DACs per channel. Pretty nice specs.
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/groove/specifications

Normally $295, but until July 9th part of their sale. You can buy directly from them for $149.

http://www.apogeedigital.com/4th-of-july Just look down the page for the Groove.

 

[Wombat]

@amirm
How about the Apogee Groove. This one works with Windows and Mac.

Small little unit does up to 24/192. Uses an 8 channel ESS DAC allocated as 4 DACs per channel. Pretty nice specs.
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/groove/specifications

Normally $295, but until July 9th part of their sale. You can buy directly from them for $149.

http://www.apogeedigital.com/4th-of-july Just look down the page for the Groove.

So many refurbished items that a big sale can be had. Faulty or unsatisfied-customer returns?

 

[Blumlein 88]

So many refurbished items that a big sale can be had. Faulty or unsatisfied-customer returns? View attachment 13707

I've wondered the same thing. They are a moderately large company, so maybe a way to get rid of refurbs which may not be a large number relative to production. They aren't advertising this anywhere. I tripped over it by accident.

With good companies refurbs on some type of gear is a great thing. Someone personally checked it out and confirmed its performance. In the early days of digital cameras, there were still some fiddly adjustments to the optics. Refurbs were better because someone made sure it dead centered the optical performance they were shooting for. I wouldn't think any such fiddly bits exist in this digital audio gear anymore.

Besides there is a 30 day return if not satisfied. If Amir does his testing quickly, and it falls miserably short of the spec, he could return it for a full refund. If not, he probably could resell it nicely as he would have confirmed its goodness. Amir would be extra QC.

 

[Wombat]

I've wondered the same thing. They are a moderately large company, so maybe a way to get rid of refurbs which may not be a large number relative to production. They aren't advertising this anywhere. I tripped over it by accident.

With good companies refurbs on some type of gear is a great thing. Someone personally checked it out and confirmed its performance. In the early days of digital cameras, there were still some fiddly adjustments to the optics. Refurbs were better because someone made sure it dead centered the optical performance they were shooting for. I wouldn't think any such fiddly bits exist in this digital audio gear anymore.

Besides there is a 30 day return if not satisfied. If Amir does his testing quickly, and it falls miserably short of the spec, he could return it for a full refund. If not, he probably could resell it nicely as he would have confirmed its goodness. Amir would be extra QC.

Sometimes it is a little fib to justify unsettling discounts, maybe.