• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Help Wanted ...

FrantzM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
4,337
Likes
7,722
Hi

I would start by suggesting to put the "Start a New Thread" button at the beginning of any page this way people don't have to fish for it at the bottom ... It took me a while to find it .. I know.... brain fogs and old age .. :(

Back to the thread. I will ask you to be lenient. The preambles will be long ...

I used to be a classic, fundamentalist, purist, money-spending audiophile. I started to have my doubts very late, AVS Forum was the main driver and after having read the accounts of a very experienced audiophile with a dream system who wasn't able to distinguish his brutally expensive speaker cables from run-of-the mill speaker cables... I ran a similar experiment (knowledge removal) with the help of a few friends comparing my brutally expensive speaker cables with 6 AWG electrical cable ... I fared the same ... couldn't hear any differences ...It was the beginning ...
Ok! Fast forward to now .. I acquired a pair of JBL LSR 308s based on positive reviews from many in particular Ray Dunzl's ... The LSR 305 seems to garner more accolades but in my book a 5 inch is for midrange .. woofers start at 8 .. I needed a full range so I acquired the LSR 308 for $300/pair (old version) .... and I am shocked! Advice ... to any budding or experienced audiophile: Just buy a pair .. and take it from there. Learn, relegate it to background music duties or to HT ... gift it afterwards, if it comes to that but it could well be one of the best purchase ever inthe world of Audio reproduction. If there is another, please let me know. It is a complete system you just hook your sources to it ... Of course you may need some method to control the volume.. The present volume control is in the back and far from convenient but for $300 including amps ... what were you expecting? It goes clean under 50 Hz ... stupidly loud... at any frequency is neutral ... it sounds good. Room is untreated, irregular , open to the outside and other rooms , etc ...
The present system is based on a iFi microDSD. DAC/preamp/Headphone amplifier. Very simple system ... Preamp/DAC output to LSR308. It is nice sounding.
I am building a learning/lab/ enjoyable system before moving to more interesting stuff (M2??? ;)) in a room that is being built for the purpose, it is at least a year off (has been that way for years :D). I need recommendations for some seriously cheap but powerful subs . Presently leaning toward the Partsxpress subs Ray has. I need to limit the bass that goes to the LSR308 to 80 Hz . The subs will take it from there and hopefully down to 18 Hz @105 dB :D ... I don't want to perform X-over in analog. I want to use a DRC/DSP such as Acourate or Dirac or Audiolense to X-over perhaps correct a bit of the speaker response in my room, in the bass mostly and perhaps clean out if possible the step response and other stuff. I want to learn DRC/DSP, on the cheap. Total cost is to be <$1500.. I already have one DAC and the PC (powerful i7 late generation), the speakers and soon the 3 subs for $600 ... I may purchase a Tripoint Emperor grounding box later to have a wider soundstage:rolleyes:
I want to perform the correction and crossover in digital and send the respective frequnignal to 2 DACs one for the main and the other for the subs. I have no opinion about digital versus analog volume control. Would like to maintain signal integrity if volume is performed in digital. IOW keep the same bit resolution regardless of volume setting if at all possible.. or at least keep the error very low.
What do I need to accomplish this in term of hardware, software. I already have REW, a Umik and the willingness to learn. I will download Acourate or Dirac or whatever is recommended by the collective.
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,499
Likes
5,417
Location
UK
it is at least a year off (has been that way for years :D)
Oh I recognise that. I maintain a mythical long list of things I need to get done, progress is, glacial.

On your question I don't have the answers, but want them, I have almost asked the same thing a few times myself.

Are you using just the PC for this, as a single source, or do you need to use multiple sources? Any analogue sources?
 
OP
F

FrantzM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
4,337
Likes
7,722
Oh I recognise that. I maintain a mythical long list of things I need to get done, progress is, glacial.

On your question I don't have the answers, but want them, I have almost asked the same thing a few times myself.

Are you using just the PC for this, as a single source, or do you need to use multiple sources? Any analogue sources?
PC likely to be the sole source for now, it will also be needed to perform ROom core duties, DSP, DRC, hopefully Volume Control via an IR remote.
At the current price of a decent DACs I can well see one DAC for the mains and one much cheaper DAC for the subs .. Behringer anyone? Can latency issues through the DAC be compensated with Acourate or other DRC/DSP?
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,499
Likes
5,417
Location
UK
Your life is going to be a lot simpler if you are just using a PC, I would think about it as it could lock you out of other sources potentially.
If you are just using a PC you could do volume in Roon, via the app.
I'm sure differing latency will be fixed by DSP, it just needs to be consistent latency.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,368
Likes
234,381
Location
Seattle Area
On limiting the lows to the mains, one option is not bother with that. I believe there are already limiters in there in these speakers and hence the reason they sound so good. So just add the sub to the equation and use its crossover control to balance the sound. I did this with my JBL 305 Mark II with decent success after a couple of minutes of playing.

On DRC, one option would be to get a sub with built-in DSP filters. That way you can use REW, find the room modes, and dial them out right in the sub.
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,499
Likes
5,417
Location
UK
On limiting the lows to the mains, one option is not bother with that. I believe there are already limiters in there in these speakers and hence the reason they sound so good. So just add the sub to the equation and use its crossover control to balance the sound. I did this with my JBL 305 Mark II with decent success after a couple of minutes of playing.
Would that not create inconsistent results at different volumes, and on material with different extension? Play something loud with deep bass and the mains will limit, play something quiet with limited deep bass and they won't. Seems like a recipe for confusion to me, would be good if I'm wrong.
On DRC, one option would be to get a sub with built-in DSP filters. That way you can use REW, find the room modes, and dial them out right in the sub.
That does seem the simplest way, especially if the sub is clever enough to control the timing delays to itself and the mains, but few offer this from what I can see. Or can DSP fix this if the output from the DSP is just left + right?
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
632
Hi

I would start by suggesting to put the "Start a New Thread" button at the beginning of any page this way people don't have to fish for it at the bottom ... It took me a while to find it .. I know.... brain fogs and old age .. :(

Back to the thread. I will ask you to be lenient. The preambles will be long ...

I used to be a classic, fundamentalist, purist, money-spending audiophile. I started to have my doubts very late, AVS Forum was the main driver and after having read the accounts of a very experienced audiophile with a dream system who wasn't able to distinguish his brutally expensive speaker cables from run-of-the mill speaker cables... I ran a similar experiment (knowledge removal) with the help of a few friends comparing my brutally expensive speaker cables with 6 AWG electrical cable ... I fared the same ... couldn't hear any differences ...It was the beginning ...
Ok! Fast forward to now .. I acquired a pair of JBL LSR 308s based on positive reviews from many in particular Ray Dunzl's ... The LSR 305 seems to garner more accolades but in my book a 5 inch is for midrange .. woofers start at 8 .. I needed a full range so I acquired the LSR 308 for $300/pair (old version) .... and I am shocked! Advice ... to any budding or experienced audiophile: Just buy a pair .. and take it from there. Learn, relegate it to background music duties or to HT ... gift it afterwards, if it comes to that but it could well be one of the best purchase ever inthe world of Audio reproduction. If there is another, please let me know. It is a complete system you just hook your sources to it ... Of course you may need some method to control the volume.. The present volume control is in the back and far from convenient but for $300 including amps ... what were you expecting? It goes clean under 50 Hz ... stupidly loud... at any frequency is neutral ... it sounds good. Room is untreated, irregular , open to the outside and other rooms , etc ...
The present system is based on a iFi microDSD. DAC/preamp/Headphone amplifier. Very simple system ... Preamp/DAC output to LSR308. It is nice sounding.
I am building a learning/lab/ enjoyable system before moving to more interesting stuff (M2??? ;)) in a room that is being built for the purpose, it is at least a year off (has been that way for years :D). I need recommendations for some seriously cheap but powerful subs . Presently leaning toward the Partsxpress subs Ray has. I need to limit the bass that goes to the LSR308 to 80 Hz . The subs will take it from there and hopefully down to 18 Hz @105 dB :D ... I don't want to perform X-over in analog. I want to use a DRC/DSP such as Acourate or Dirac or Audiolense to X-over perhaps correct a bit of the speaker response in my room, in the bass mostly and perhaps clean out if possible the step response and other stuff. I want to learn DRC/DSP, on the cheap. Total cost is to be <$1500.. I already have one DAC and the PC (powerful i7 late generation), the speakers and soon the 3 subs for $600 ... I may purchase a Tripoint Emperor grounding box later to have a wider soundstage:rolleyes:
I want to perform the correction and crossover in digital and send the respective frequnignal to 2 DACs one for the main and the other for the subs. I have no opinion about digital versus analog volume control. Would like to maintain signal integrity if volume is performed in digital. IOW keep the same bit resolution regardless of volume setting if at all possible.. or at least keep the error very low.
What do I need to accomplish this in term of hardware, software. I already have REW, a Umik and the willingness to learn. I will download Acourate or Dirac or whatever is recommended by the collective.
On Dirac, it does not itself yet contain bass xover capability. That has been announced for sometime this year, though. Acourate can do bass xovers now, as we know.

I use Dirac in conjunction with JRiver, which can easily perform bass management and xovers to a mono sub output channel, though not with the in depth control of Acourate. But, JRiver can perform xover frequency, distance delay, and channel level adjustments. I am happy with my setup.

Also, I am completely unknowlegeable about sending simultaneous signal to two DACs via two different USB or other connections. It seemingly should not be too tough, but, offhand, I would not know how to do it.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,368
Likes
234,381
Location
Seattle Area
Would that not create inconsistent results at different volumes, and on material with different extension? Play something loud with deep bass and the mains will limit, play something quiet with limited deep bass and they won't. Seems like a recipe for confusion to me, would be good if I'm wrong.
When I said "limit" I meant frequency roll off. It may also have a limiter too.
 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,198
Likes
16,981
Location
Riverview FL
Top Bottom