How to make Topping D10 act as a preamp

[Krunok]

Seeing how well D10 performed on @amirm measurements, especially considering its very modest pricing, probably the same idea crossed minds of many of us: if only this little hero has volume control so it can be hooked directly to the amplifier! It would be even better if the volume could be controlled remotely. Well, luckilly, this could be done!

As I have shown in this thread (https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/my-review-of-topping-d10.3303/) If you hook up D10 via USB to a Raspberry Pi running Volumio you got yourself a nice setup to play your home music collection. This setup works especially well if your music collection resides on a NAS which is running UPnP media server (in my case it is Synology DS216 SE).

Once you got that to work, and it really isn't complicated even if you don't have any experience with Raspberry Pi, this is what you have to configure under the "Playback options/Volume options":



Volumio chief developer claims that in this scenario "hardware mixer sets the appropriate registers in the DAC allowing to have bit perfect volume control" and that "all volume related processing is done by DAC and not by Volumio".

Once you got that to work this is what you need to do under the settings of your BubbleUPnP app on your Android phone (Volume keys and Volume step):



After that you will be able to control the volume with the volume keys of your Android phone.

This is how it looks when playing (notice that volume value is set to "15"):



If you want to do the same from your Windows PC you should use Linn Kazoo app which is available here:
https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9nblggh4np11

This is how it looks (notice that Kazoo automatically got the volume value of 15 as was set by BubbleUPnP):



BubbleUPnP and Kazoo will automatically synchonise with each other not only the volume level but the playing queue as well as both of them are UPnP controllers handling Volumio which is acting as UPnP renderer. If you have UPnP media server on your local network your music collection will be available to both of them without any configuration needed on Volumio side.

 

[amirm]

Thanks for the detailed write-up. I came close to installing Volumio once on the Pi but then went another direction. Will have to give it a try....

 

[Krunok]

No problem

Btw, this is a simple presentation made by ESS which shows how exactly digital volume control works:
http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf

This is ES9018K2m (DAC used in D10) product brief: https://popcornhour.hu/media/news/a-500_pro/es9018k2m.pdf

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

This is most interesting. I have this dream of a multi-way active system for my end game (continuously deferred Audio system ) . I wanted to have 6 Topping D10 feeding a 4-way active mains plus 4 mono subs (2 for left + 2 for Right + 2 for the 4 subs). I have dreams of performing Time alignment on the subs ...I am learning or am about to learn the Multi-subs thing, since I am waiting for my super-duper Behringer iNuke 6000-4 channel amp to be cryogenically treated and modd-ed with Duelund capacitors and pure silver transformer ... . The mods are being performed while I wait for the 4-ch amp to clear Customs ..

Seriously though...
I need a way to have all of these DACs be seen as one ot to have a global volume control ...
On an ergonomic viewpoint, I need a system that turns on not boots on ... IOW I would love the convenience of an appliance that doesn't require constant fussing and caring and programming and checking. Just a button to push to turn it on, another to raise or lower the volume. Not an app, not a slider on a screen, no mouse please ... a rotary button.. don't care about what happens in the inside or/and background .. a knob..

Right now the D10 are $75 $90 on Amazon Prime .... 6 for about $450 $540... Still an interesting Price to Performance ratio ...

 

[FrantzM]

No problem

Btw, this is a simple presentation made by ESS which shows how exactly digital volume control works:
http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf

This is ES9018K2m (DAC used in D10) product brief: https://popcornhour.hu/media/news/a-500_pro/es9018k2m.pdf

Thanks soooo much for the information .. Much appreciated !!

 

[Krunok]

Instead of combining multiple 2-channel DACs I really think you should consider a multichannel DAC for your needs, something like this: https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8

 

[dallasjustice]

Although 2v RMS max output line level is pretty standard for consumer electronics, it’s too little output to directly drive most amps, when also using some DSP/EQ. Of course, some of this depends on listening distance, speaker sensitivity, amp gain and room acoustics.

 

[Krunok]

Although 2v RMS max output line level is pretty standard for consumer electronics, it’s too little output to directly drive most amps, when also using some DSP/EQ. Of course, some of this depends on listening distance, speaker sensitivity, amp gain and room acoustics.

My Rotel amp has input sensitivity of 1.0V. Frankly, i don't remember seeing an amp with input sensitivity much higher than 2.0V.

 

[FrantzM]

Instead of combining multiple 2-channel DACs I really think you should consider a multichannel DAC for your needs, something like this: https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/u-dac8

Wasn't too excited by the showing of the Mini DSP 2 x 4 in Amirm review (Click Here) ... Will likely use it for learning purposes but the audiophile and engineer in me are not enthused by its performance.... Its failing are perhaps not audible, they're nonetheless unacceptable to me.

 

[dallasjustice]

Wasn't too excited by the showing of the Mini DSP 2 x 4 in Amirm review (Click Here) ... Will likely use it for learning purposes but the audiophile and engineer in me are not enthused by its performance.... Its failing are perhaps not audible, they're nonetheless unacceptable to me.

Your dream system would best use a pro audio multi channel DAC/ADC. All channels could be synchronized (including in/out sync) and you could adjust output voltage to appropriately gain match your system.

 

[FrantzM]

Your dream system would best use a pro audio multi channel DAC/ADC. All channels could be synchronized (including in/out sync) and you could adjust output voltage to appropriately gain match your system.

.


I tend to agree. Before going full tilt at $2300, I would like to search alternative brands such as MOTU or even (Gasp!! ) Behringer!! There seems to be a lot of gems in the Pro Audio segment. I have morphed into a cheapskate after having been a classic audiophile willing to spend $20K on a DAC ... I want to spend my money wisely. If same performance can be had for lesser price that is where I'll go.
In the here and now I would like to know how inexpensive professional multidac like the MOTU gears (What compare to the Hilo , objectively. I would have prefered those to the miniDSP 4 x 10 HD for example.

 

[dallasjustice]

.


I tend to agree. Before going full tilt at $2300, I would like to search alternative brands such as MOTU or even (Gasp!! ) Behringer!! There seems to be a lot of gems in the Pro Audio segment. I have morphed into a cheapskate after having been a classic audiophile willing to spend $20K on a DAC ... I want to spend my money wisely. If same performance can be had for lesser price that is where I'll go.
In the here and now I would like to know how inexpensive professional multidac like the MOTU gears (What compare to the Hilo , objectively. I would have prefered those to the miniDSP 4 x 10 HD for example.

Motu is very reasonable. I can’t think of a better value.

 

[Xulonn]

For me - even at 76 y/o - the lust for cool audio gear never seems to die. But after spending many hours on the internet over the past couple of weeks looking at current audio hardware and software options, I've learned a lot, dreamed of upgrades that cost much more than I can afford on my pension, and returned to earth. I don't really need that Cocktail Audio N15D audio player/DAC/headphone amp with a 500Gb SSD for $1,100.

Back to reality, for digital audio, I never use playlist or genre playback modes. Music is subjective and there are now literally hundreds of overlapping genres that computer apps seem to never get straight. My albums are all in folders, and it is easier for me to work my way down into nested sub-folders to find what I want to play from the 10,000+ tracks on my NAS. But apparently, many computer-based music playback apps ignore the folder playback mode - or relegate it to an inconvenient location buried down in their sub-menus.

For music playback, I currently use Kodi (LibreELEC on a dual-boot Intel NUC), streaming from a Synology NAS. However, Kodi is far too complex with too many "features" that I will never use. The "headless option" is a web interface called Chorus2, and it really sucks. It is primitive, ugly, and unrefined. I have not yet figured out how to adjust the volume from my Nvidia Shield Android tablet. I really would like to control my "main system" music playback from my tablet and/or laptop, and avoid having to use my 40” LCD TV and full-size wireless keyboard as the way to access and manage my music playback.

But the one feature I really like about Kodi is that I can very easily play music from my NAS by folders and sub-folders - right click on a folder and it will randomly play all tracks in that folder and its sub-folders. For instance, my classical guitar folder includes all of my ripped CD's in a separate folder for each album, and another folder contains with 700+ individual tracks from stream-ripped internet radio and other sources. (Stream-ripping is legal for personal use - it is a form of time-shifting playback.)

If Volumio can easily select and randomly play tracks in nested folders - I will install it in place of LibreELEC/Kodi on the SD card in my dual boot x86 Intel NUC this week.

I will leave Linux Mint on the NUC's SSD and use a Linux video player - probably VLC - to watch movies and videos (which I also have organized in folders and sub-folders on my NAS). I will leave Kodi installed on Linux Mint for the rare instances when I want to watch a live sporting or other event. I currently use S/PDIF optical output from the NUC to the SMSL Q5 Pro, but if Volumio works for me and has drivers for USB digital audio out to a DAC, I will switch to USB.

 

[Krunok]

But the one feature I really like about Kodi is that I can very easily play music from my NAS by folders and sub-folders - right click on a folder and it will randomly play all tracks in that folder and its sub-folders. For instance, my classical guitar folder includes all of my ripped CD's in a separate folder for each album, and another folder contains with 700+ individual tracks from stream-ripped internet radio and other sources. (Stream-ripping is legal for personal use - it is a form of time-shifting playback.)

If Volumio can easily select and randomly play tracks in nested folders - I will install it in place of LibreELEC/Kodi on the SD card in my dual boot x86 Intel NUC this week.

Volumio is a UPnP renderer so it cannot really play anything on its own - it needs UPnP control point to send music to it for playing.

On Windows PC, with Linn Kazoo and/or Kinsky you can do what you want - right clink on a folder and send everything in it (including subfolders) to be played by Volumio. You can then choose that to be played in random and/or repeat mode.

Kinsky has better interface than Kazoo but you can't control the volume with it when Volumio is configured to control volume in "hardware" mode, but you can use Volumio web based control app to control volume with it. Volume control works ok with Kazoo.

You can also do the same from the Android platform using BubbleUPnP app, volume control works there fine too.

 

[Xulonn]

Thanks - good info. I will try Volumio in system and report back within a week.

 

[Krunok]

Thanks - good info. I will try Volumio in system and report back within a week.

No problem, good luck!

 

[Ron Texas]

Does anyone know if this trick will work with JRiver running on Win 10? I know it is possible for JRiver to control the volume on some DAC's.

 

[Krunok]

Does anyone know if this trick will work with JRiver running on Win 10? I know it is possible for JRiver to control the volume on some DAC's.

You should be able to make Jriver see Volumio as a DLNA renderer and send music to it. In that case volume control should work the same as it works with Kinsky and BubbleUPnP and you will still have your music library in Jriver.

Btw, I have also seen configuration where Jriver is installed on a separate Raspberry Pi acting as a DLNA media server pointing to a NAS drive where the music files are stored. That way you use the RPI to turn your NAS into a Jriver Media server in a same manner you use Volumio to turn your DAC into UPnP/DLNA renderer. After you do that you can use whatever player you like (assuming it supports UPnP/DLNA) to play our music. It can be Jriver on Win 10 if that is the most convinient for you, but it can also be BubbleUPnP on your Android device.

Here is a link you may find usefull if you choose to do it yourself: http://www.hagensieker.com/jriver/index.php

Here is a link where you can buy installed device: https://jriver.com/Id/

P.S. As an alternative to Volumio you can have Jriver installed on RPI to act as a DLNA renderer, but I don't know if the hardware volume control will work in that scenario on a devices like Topping D10.

 

[Krunok]

I just tried to play music to Volumio from Jriver (v24.0.40) and volume control works.

You have to enable DLNA under the Tools/Options/Media Network:



After that volume control works by default:


As you can see Jriver also sees my NAS but if I would be using Jriver I would probably choose to have Jriver media center running on a RPI rather than on my Win 10 computer to have my Jriver library as a PC Win independent solution. (No offense @amirm! )

 

[Soniclife]

Volumio is a UPnP renderer so it cannot really play anything on its own - it needs UPnP control point to send music to it for playing.

It can and will play things on it's own, it just needs some type of external control to start it. From their website.

Volumio is meant to be an headless dap (digital audio player), just connect it to your home stereo system or your DAC.
Then, connect it to your home network and control it just from a browser: Pc, Mac, Android or iOS.
Volumio can take your music from USB, Network Storage, streaming services like Spotify and act as a DLNA Player or Airplay receiver.

I used a MPD app on my phone when I used it.