If you had to choose: Topping D50s or D70s?

[bombaclat]

Hi guys,

Wondering, if you had the choice, and the price difference was of no concern, which model would you get between the D50s and the D70s (one with BT) and why?

I ordered both from Amazon since they were on sale here in Canada (233$CAD for the D50s, 650$CAD for the D70s). Reason for buying them is that I am upgrading my PC and my trusty old ESI Juli@ PCI will not be usable on the new machine, so I will be using one them as a sound card. It will be connected to an old Technics ST-HD505 at first, but eventually this year I will upgrade the whole chain, with this DAC being the starting point.

Very curious to hear your opinions.

Thanks

 

[SpyB]

Should have waited for the Topping D90 to be reviewed here

although the 2 you purchased are also good

http://www.tpdz.net/news_detail/newsId=95.html

 

[bombaclat]

Should have waited for the Topping D90 to be reviewed here

although the 2 you purchased are also good

http://www.tpdz.net/news_detail/newsId=95.html

Yeah noticed it after placing the order...but it's amazon prime

I think the D90 will also be in the 1000$CAD range, widening the gap even more between the 3.

 

[solderdude]

A choice between them would come down to functionality, looks and price.

 

[Evenor]

Probably can't go wrong with either. Two reasons to go for D70 would be XLR out and an integrated quality power supply but you have to pay about the double compared to D50s. The D50s is really good and by far the least limiting component in my audio chain.

 

[kkeretic]

I have both the D50s and D70 (without BT, but rest of it should be the same). And I have to say they sound quite different. The D70 is somewhat thin on the bass by default which is not something I can just go over easily. Everything else sounds really great. But since I added an inexpensive FX-Audio Tube-03 preamp (with OPA627+OPA1622 opamps + GE JAN 5654W tubes) to the chain, it now sounds like a million bucks in every positive way. Seriously. I only regret I didn't buy the Bluetooth version. The D50s on the other hand has slam from the start, tight hit-to-the-chest bass, has interchangeable opamp (already changed it to the OPA1622 and/or AD797BRZ for good ), sounds also nice at half the price of the D70. It also has much smaller footprint and can turn off the display completely. Like it for electronic music, rock, vocals and when want to take a bath with details in sound. The D70+preamp for jazz and ambient music. Now, I can't decide which one I like more because both of them sound very good, each in its own way. It is actually cool to have them both. And to answer the question, between the two, I would probably go for the D70 with Bluetooth + a tube preamp. And D50s without the preamp.

 

[raif71]

I was given the choice of getting D50s and D70 from a local shop in my area. I opted for D50s as I was searching for an ESS desktop dac. I already owned an AKM desktop dac (Fiio K5 Pro) .

 

[BDWoody]

I have both the D50s and D70 (without BT, but rest of it should be the same). And I have to say they sound quite different.

If they sound different in the way you describe, before all the added distortion through your signal chain, one is almost certainly faulty in some way....

If you can tell the difference once these are level matched and tested blind (in other words, the minimum required before claims might be taken seriously), you would likely be the very first human to do it.

 

[kkeretic]

If they sound different in the way you describe, before all the added distortion through your signal chain, one is almost certainly faulty in some way....

Well, quite possible, I would said not optimized instead of faulty. And if one is really faulty, it is hard for me to said which one. Probably the D70 that lacks the bass the D50s has out of the box. And if even my wife said that... But then I don't expect them to be perfect for the price.

 

[BDWoody]

Well, quite possible, I would said not optimized instead of faulty. And if one is really faulty, it is hard for me to said which one. Probably the D70 that lacks the bass the D50s has out of the box. And if even my wife said that... But then I don't expect them to be perfect for the price.

They are sold optimized...and transparent.

You didn't just play the "even my wife could hear the difference" card did you?

You should expect them to be perfectly transparent... That's the beauty of understanding more of the science of it. Price has almost zero correlation to transparency...almost the opposite it seems.

There isn't a DAC on the planet that would sound 'better' than either of these... If we choose to define the goal as being audible fidelity to the source material, which is the case for most here. If they sounded different...something was wrong.

 

[Jimbob54]

They are sold optimized...and transparent.

You didn't just play the "even my wife could hear the difference" card did you?

You should expect them to be perfectly transparent... That's the beauty of understanding more of the science of it. Price has almost zero correlation to transparency...almost the opposite it seems.

There isn't a DAC on the planet that would sound 'better' than either of these... If we choose to define the goal as being audible fidelity to the source material, which is the case for most here. If they sounded different...something was wrong.

He did. Golden Eared Wives Club. #GEWC

 

[kkeretic]

You didn't just play the "even my wife could hear the difference" card did you?
You should expect them to be perfectly transparent...

Yes I did . Well, with respect for the measurements and results, I was talking about the perception of the whole sound image of my system when using these DACs. Changing the dac changes the sound image in my ears (and not just in mine ). So my conclusion is simply by hearing and feeling, they "sound" different to me.

 

[BDWoody]

Yes I did .

The man owns up proudly...gotta start with respect for that...

Well, with respect for the measurements and results, I was talking about the perception of the whole sound image of my system when using these DACs. Changing the dac changes the sound image in my ears (and not just in mine ). So my conclusion is simply by hearing and feeling, they sound different to me.

I understand, and have heard the exact same things. I'm not saying that you, or any of the others who hear these differences are lying...quite the contrary.

The issue is there are so many different biases that interfere with our ability to compare these types of devices, that without using fairly strict controls on the listening process, the results can astonishingly unreliable.

For me, after all the standard doubt, I went through the very tedious process of doing a true, level matched by volt meter, double blind test of a relatively expensive DAC, vs several others...and found that, in absolutely startling clarity, I couldn't tell the difference between any of them, no matter how hard I tried or thought I should.

Typically, the response to that is that either my ears are bad, or my system(s) suck. Neither is the case...its what I later learned was what would be absolutely predicted by the results of the measurements revealed here.

As I dug more into all this, I learned much more about the BS inherent in so much of this industry...

Super special unicorn hair USB cables for thousands? Are you kidding me?
Any cable for thousands for that matter...

Anyway, I appreciate your good natured response, and I hope you take my response in kind.

I have saved thousands of dollars by learning what matters and what doesn't...much of it through learning about psychoacoustics and sampling theory. Neither is intuitive, but a little effort can create a lot of peace, and a bigger budget for something that might actually have a chance of improving my listening experience.

All I need from a DAC is competence...
Now...when we are talking about the room/speaker system...that's where real gains lay for most people. Lots of low hanging fruit.

 

[michman66]

I have both the D50s and D70 (without BT, but rest of it should be the same). And I have to say they sound quite different. The D70 is somewhat thin on the bass by default which is not something I can just go over easily. Everything else sounds really great. But since I added an inexpensive FX-Audio Tube-03 preamp (with OPA627+OPA1622 opamps + GE JAN 5654W tubes) to the chain, it now sounds like a million bucks in every positive way. Seriously. I only regret I didn't buy the Bluetooth version. The D50s on the other hand has slam from the start, tight hit-to-the-chest bass, has interchangeable opamp (already changed it to the OPA1622 and/or AD797BRZ for good ), sounds also nice at half the price of the D70. It also has much smaller footprint and can turn off the display completely. Like it for electronic music, rock, vocals and when want to take a bath with details in sound. The D70+preamp for jazz and ambient music. Now, I can't decide which one I like more because both of them sound very good, each in its own way. It is actually cool to have them both. And to answer the question, between the two, I would probably go for the D70 with Bluetooth + a tube preamp. And D50s without the preamp.

I was surfing for reviews and comments on the D50s, and read your post. I'm intrigued by the fact you swapped out the stock op amp, which Topping says very little is to be gained so to speak by doing this. I can look it up, hehe, is it only 1 op amp or 2,,and you mentioned 2 different ones here. How much are the ones you used, what improvement did you feel you gained, and last where to buy them. Thank you for reply.

 

[kkeretic]

I was surfing for reviews and comments on the D50s, and read your post. I'm intrigued by the fact you swapped out the stock op amp, which Topping says very little is to be gained so to speak by doing this. I can look it up, hehe, is it only 1 op amp or 2,,and you mentioned 2 different ones here. How much are the ones you used, what improvement did you feel you gained, and last where to buy them. Thank you for reply.

Forget about opamp swapping, I was (not so) young and stupid.

 

[mkawa]

opamp swapping made sense with cmoys which literally were just textbook OPA circuits, but anything more complicated and the difference is nonexistent.