Is there any benefit from woofers exceeding 5 inches, if matched with sub?

[EPC]

If for a second you assume everything you mix below 100hz or so will be mono...

Most 5 inch monitors go down to around 50-60hz or so.
So is the any benefit from having monitors with a woofer that exceeds 5 inches, if matched with a subwoofer with a crossover of around 80hz?

I'm aware that the roll off (depending on the db per/octave) may not be super smooth, but aside from that, is there much of an advantage of getting monitors with a higher woofer?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Absolutely. Even in the upper-bass/low-midrange (let's say 80Hz-300Hz ish), a 5" woofer is not going to be capable of the same performance in terms of distortion and max. output as a larger driver (or multiple drivers).

Looking at typical spectra of recorded music can be quite illustrative of why this range of frequencies can be demanding for a speaker system (graph taken from this research paper):

As always with these questions, though, it partly depends on room size, listening level, and what you're listening to. For modest levels in a small studio, and especially with music that is not too dynamic, a decent 5" woofer crossed over to a sub at around 80H should have no problems.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Having said that, if you don't need the additional headroom of a larger woofer, there can be advantages to using a monitor with a smaller woofer, too.

In particular, if the monitor is a 2-way design, the smaller woofer is likely to integrate better with the high-frequency driver, resulting in better off-axis performance and/or wider directivity (depending on design choices).

What's your specific application?

 

[Rock Rabbit]

No...except for a precise measure and selection of the xo point for a flat response (including room gain, room without standing waves (sure?)). IMHO less problems and more compact solution with JBL 308 (flat to 40 Hz) than a pair of JBL 305 plus JBL 310 sub + measurements (at least a calibrated microphone + REW) + possibly room acoustic treatment.
If 40 Hz is enough for music mixing I'll go with the 308 solution...don't tell anybody but they are at same $$ than 305 in Amazon now (2 studio monitors 40Hz-18 kHz flat 108 dB SPL for 400 bucks!!)

 

[raistlin65]

I'm aware that the roll off (depending on the db per/octave) may not be super smooth, but aside from that, is there much of an advantage of getting monitors with a higher woofer?

Are you talking about for desktop music listening or living room music/home theater?

A larger driver could have the advantage of better dynamics. But if you are sitting at a desk with them aimed 3 ft from your head, most people would not be pushing the driver enough to need that.

 

[astrex342]

Depends on your usage. if you are pushing thx reference 105db peaks, a 5 in woofer isn't going to handle it even above 80hz.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Try A/Bing comparable quality 5" and 8" drivers with sub crossover set to 80 Hz but sub turned off running a 100-200 Hz frequency sweep at increasingly higher SPL.

 

[richard12511]

No...except for a precise measure and selection of the xo point for a flat response (including room gain, room without standing waves (sure?)). IMHO less problems and more compact solution with JBL 308 (flat to 40 Hz) than a pair of JBL 305 plus JBL 310 sub + measurements (at least a calibrated microphone + REW) + possibly room acoustic treatment.
If 40 Hz is enough for music mixing I'll go with the 308 solution...don't tell anybody but they are at same $$ than 305 in Amazon now (2 studio monitors 40Hz-18 kHz flat 108 dB SPL for 400 bucks!!)

Truly incredible speakers for that price!

 

[Pawelekdabek]

What about distortion. If I get subwoofer with high pass filter at 80Hz, will that make satelites to have lower distortion at 80hz than before when they had to extend to 50Hz deep?

 

[617]

I have speakers which only go down to maybe 80hz and they have 12" woofers, which are about 5.5 times the area of a 5" woofer and I can assure you the difference between that and my other speakers with 5" woofers (nice sb acoustics woofers in one case, cheaper woofers in jbl monitors) is very much apparent, even at low levels.

I don't know what in particular makes them sound so different; probably a combination of the narrower directivity of the large woofer and the vanishingly low distortion, but the big woofer is vastly more intelligble and palpable. Downside of course is that is fucking huge and ugly.

 

[Steve Dallas]

The difference in surface area between a 5.25" and 6.5" driver is 11.5 in^2, which is not an insignificant amount of area pushing energy into a room. A small driver crossed at 80Hz is still expected to handle the "punchy" bass frequencies near 100-120Hz, which is where the impact of kick drums and some percussion instruments are felt. More cone area equals more ability to do that convincingly.

I have had many opportunities to compare smaller and larger bookshelf speakers from the same line side by side, and I have always preferred the larger midwoofer. Very recently, I had Dynaudio X14s and X18s in my collection. There is really no contest between them--even with a pair of subwoofers in the mix. I sent the smaller X14s to Amir for measurement, then sold them immediately. The larger X18s are currently occupying the stands in my study.

Also, a larger driver will generally play louder with lower distortion than a smaller driver.

 

[test1223]

For bass lower than about 300Hz, a 5 inch woofer is typically to small for state of the art performance.
There are some nonlinear distortions like thermal compression and such which make a difference.

Besides that the sound radiation is one of the most important parts of a loudspeaker. The sound of a speaker which has a narrower beam in the bass region will sound better in most cases. You can achieve that with bigger bass chassis or multiple chassis.

 

[Ron Texas]

A 100 hz crossover 4th order works wonders with a 5" woofer. It will not turn it into an M2.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

What about distortion. If I get subwoofer with high pass filter at 80Hz, will that make satelites to have lower distortion at 80hz than before when they had to extend to 50Hz deep?

In a typical consumer audio gear at high SPL certainly there's a benefit, assuming that room subwoofer interaction has no issues. But the OP talks about monitor speakers and mixing, meaning near field conditions (low SPL) at low distortion and where flat frequency response and neutral tone is everything. With balanced input monitors and + 4dBu to + 20 dBu line level! the sub must be studio grade quality too (with balanced outputs for the monitors) in a studio room (without standing waves and coloration). Without an acoustically treated studio a subwoofer is only more problems imho

 

[digitalfrost]

Depends on the volume required. Speaking from personal experience, a 5" mid-woofer needs to be crossed over at around 100hz, as it will already be down at 80hz and completely useless below 60hz. You don't need to go 8", but a 6"/7" (remember, area increases squared to the radius) woofer offers more headroom and will fit nicely to a waveguided tweeter so the horizontal dispersion is even. That said, yeah a 5" woofer works for me, you just have to account for the tradeoffs.

 

[Pearljam5000]

If you'll listen to the KH120 you'll never believe it's a 5 inch, so size is not the only factor here.

 

[Rock Rabbit]

Depends on the volume required. Speaking from personal experience, a 5" mid-woofer needs to be crossed over at around 100hz, as it will already be down at 80hz and completely useless below 60hz. You don't need to go 8", but a 6"/7" (remember, area increases squared to the radius) woofer offers more headroom and will fit nicely to a waveguided tweeter so the horizontal dispersion is even. That said, yeah a 5" woofer works for me, you just have to account for the tradeoffs.

5" woofer

 

[Sprint]

Hi all,

My set up consists of 3 Genelec 8340 as LCR, 2 Genelec 8330 as surrounds and 2 SVS Sb-12nsd subwoofers. The 8340s have 6.5 inches woofer. I sit at a listening distance of 3,5 meters. I run movies and music at 74 db average and 85 db max peak.

When I spoke to Genelec dealer here, they said for my room 8340 or 8341 is minimum and 8350/51 will be the best. for economy reasons and due to white color, I chose 8340. Even though 8340 are near field monitors, in my room it seems to be working. During the weekend, I saw Avatar over my blurray and the sound was excellent, better than my movie hall nearby where JBL is used.

what are your thoughts? Will 8340 still produce distortion at 74db at a distance of 3,5 meters? Unfortunately, I do not hear such distortions but I may be tricked by my brain. Rather I find the sound amazing. could it be that since Genelec can play loud at 110 DB max SPL at 1 meter as per specs. So at 3,5 meters (3 db loss for every meter), it is still 101 DB max reducing 9 DB.

Would be interesting to hear your opinion.

Here are the photos of my room

https://imgur.com/a/TaaZzir

.

 

[andreasmaaan]

what are your thoughts? Will 8340 still produce distortion at 74db at a distance of 3,5 meters? Unfortunately, I do not hear such distortions but I may be tricked by my brain. Rather I find the sound amazing.

74dB is not too loud, and you say the sound is subjectively amazing. So it sounds to me like the 8340 is perfectly adequate for your purposes

 

[LTig]

If you'll listen to the KH120 you'll never believe it's a 5 inch, so size is not the only factor here.

I'd say the same about the Genelec 8020as in my wife's room. No way this is just a 4" woofer ...