Kyle / MrHeeHo
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2018
- Messages
- 163
- Likes
- 183
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Mark Waldrep In Trouble AGAIN
- Thread starter Sal1950
- Start date
Different store, i believe. I found his original post of the report and the demo was at Sunny's, not The Source. Somewhat confusing as both places had "Audio-Con" Events that day.
I moved posts over from the other thread relating to this matter to here.
I appreciate what this guy did or is doing but he’s bloody naive to think they would have no issue with it, especially considering the clandestine way he went about things.
A Audio society should be free from commercial considerations like this but I think this is more about egos and social hierarchy than money. All the over indulged wealthy folk feel real special when vendors interact with them directly like they do at these events and they can’t have anyone get in the way of that as it’s ‘embarrassing ‘ for them and ruins the handjob.
Here your seeing one appealing factor of the industry for many, it’s a social clique where men get to feel validated and important. Just about all those associated with the ‘ highend’ whether they are manufacturers, vendors or in ‘media’ (running forums too) are all a part of this ‘social hierarchical mutual investment bond’.
I’m sure things did not start out to be like this but this is indeed what it’s all become, they are not bad people by in large they are just caught up in a complex reward system that promotes or requires a kind of obedience that comprises independent thought and seems to remove any need for truth or integrity. That’s all been sold so we can feel part of the ‘group’ and maintain social grace.
A good few of you still support these corrupted vessels , buy(even work for) the ‘ establishment ‘mags etc. Maybe one should consider withdrawing their support and letting the house crumble.., a naive hope lol
A Audio society should be free from commercial considerations like this but I think this is more about egos and social hierarchy than money. All the over indulged wealthy folk feel real special when vendors interact with them directly like they do at these events and they can’t have anyone get in the way of that as it’s ‘embarrassing ‘ for them and ruins the handjob.
Here your seeing one appealing factor of the industry for many, it’s a social clique where men get to feel validated and important. Just about all those associated with the ‘ highend’ whether they are manufacturers, vendors or in ‘media’ (running forums too) are all a part of this ‘social hierarchical mutual investment bond’.
I’m sure things did not start out to be like this but this is indeed what it’s all become, they are not bad people by in large they are just caught up in a complex reward system that promotes or requires a kind of obedience that comprises independent thought and seems to remove any need for truth or integrity. That’s all been sold so we can feel part of the ‘group’ and maintain social grace.
A good few of you still support these corrupted vessels , buy(even work for) the ‘ establishment ‘mags etc. Maybe one should consider withdrawing their support and letting the house crumble.., a naive hope lol
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,696
- Likes
- 37,434
Like you think people would know by now, if they had said nothing more, his first blog would have been on line. Now they tried to "get tough", "impose their authority", shame him and ultimately kicked him out of their clique, now they are getting lots more publicity. They should have just let it slide. Not nearly so many would notice as will be the case now.
Yes, you could say that of the companies we have delt a blow to here BUT they are helplessly insecure as indeed is the whole industry so that’s not a option for them.
Great for us that they are all like teenage girls though.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #29
Yes but your entire post highlights everything that is wrong with high end audio
But then today that so called "clique" has for all intent taken over the HiFi industry. When anyone goes any further than the local Best Buy for info on getting a good HiFi, the internet or print media will 95% of the time return him the ridiculous vomit that is put out by the High End. It's just a sad reflection on all of us that this line is permitted to continue without further and louder opposition. My hat goes out to Mark for having the integrity to stand up to them.
Nothing gave me more pleasure than to receive this email from Mark today and be able to play a small part in shining a light on the corruption of the industry by passing along this info on a couple websites. It's like the AQ Video scandal all over again, when will they learn?
Never I hope. LOL
Kyle / MrHeeHo
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2018
- Messages
- 163
- Likes
- 183
my bad. It appears they both held them for the same reason which added to my confusion
Jakob1863
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I think these are two different issues, one concerning the nonsense to demonstrate such things without level control; the other that you might not want to compromise the society.
Usually the schedule of public talks at these conventions is published in advance and as Marc Waldrep did already wrote about such level differences in the past, why didn´t he talk about it with those people to ensure that any demonstration used the propper way?
Otoh, that concealing a recording device with a "good microphone" , posting about "was substantially louder" and getting a whispered " “I saw about 2 dB difference,” by another guy reportedly using a smartphone app, isn´t imo the reliable and precise information you should present when accusing other companies of wrongdoing (be the accusation explicit or implecit).
@Thomas savage ,
I don´t know about the time before, but i can remember that at least in Germany the main part of the industry was very happy to sell loudspeakers that were "digital ready" to withstand the "extreme dynamics" of the then new CDs just introduced. And of course new amplifiers were needed too.
So i have my doubts about the "it used to be better" hypothesis.........
Usually the schedule of public talks at these conventions is published in advance and as Marc Waldrep did already wrote about such level differences in the past, why didn´t he talk about it with those people to ensure that any demonstration used the propper way?
Otoh, that concealing a recording device with a "good microphone" , posting about "was substantially louder" and getting a whispered " “I saw about 2 dB difference,” by another guy reportedly using a smartphone app, isn´t imo the reliable and precise information you should present when accusing other companies of wrongdoing (be the accusation explicit or implecit).
@Thomas savage ,
I don´t know about the time before, but i can remember that at least in Germany the main part of the industry was very happy to sell loudspeakers that were "digital ready" to withstand the "extreme dynamics" of the then new CDs just introduced. And of course new amplifiers were needed too.
So i have my doubts about the "it used to be better" hypothesis.........
Last edited:
The demonstration was designed to win over members with the aim of making sales. The physics of these cables is definitive and shows these demonstrations to be playing/preying on the ignorance of individuals. No excuses make this OK.
It is even unlawful. Repeat: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising
Anti-whistleblower prejudice is showing, here. We can't have people pricking belief balloons, can we?
It is even unlawful. Repeat: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising
Anti-whistleblower prejudice is showing, here. We can't have people pricking belief balloons, can we?
Last edited:
Johnny2Bad
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
- Messages
- 42
- Likes
- 28
The only thing I would add is despite his assertion at one point in the above that anger doesn't help in any dispute, his previous eMail to that statement and following seem to me to be a bit antagonistic and argumentative. It probably didn't help that "Bob" replied in kind, and (I know, but I can't help it) he misuses "sudo" for "pseudo", which makes me cringe when I read it (yes, I am crazy about some things). The latter means "fake" and the former, it's how an unprivileged user escalates his credentials to obtain administrator status in a UNIX/Linux environment (apparently the admin username is "scientific" ;-) )
Last edited:
A subdued response compared to the strong attack upon him. It shows he is more balanced than the autocratic accuser.
Johnny2Bad
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2017
- Messages
- 42
- Likes
- 28
He writes:
“ … accept fraud as a proper way to do business …” “… snake oil …” “ … your … lack of fundamental knowledge …” “ … being hosed by charlatan vendors …”
... and follows that up with:
"... Knowing there's never any reason to rant or get angry, I reached out one more time trying to bring some reason to the discussion: ..."
... and then replies with a message that contains:
“ … shill for the vendors …” “ …plays loose with the facts …” “ … cheats during their presentations …” “ … counterbalance the BS …” “ … charlatan cable vendor …” “… If you knew more …” “ … falsification of his promotional video …” “… hyperbole, ripoffs …” “ … lies about the laws of electricity …” “ … “snake oil” …” “ … unscrupulous vendors …” “ … fraudulently promoted their wares …”
Sure looks like angry ranting to me.
Jakob1863
Addicted to Fun and Learning
That depends on the specifics of the claim; as you´ve said, the physics of these cables is definitive and therefore any attenuation of (possibly interfering) high frequency content depends on the construction details.
Can be, but that depends imo if a talk like this is considered as an advertisment and it depends on the specific claims made
Don´t know, who is showing "Anti-whistleblower prejudice" ?
Pricking of ballons? Of course, but can´t we have pricking the balloons without dismissing the physical reality?
How would you have responded to a direct attack on your character, given an absence of 'club' rules, without giving reasons for your disagreement?
I think he gave reasons that seemed credible to him - more so than the put-down he suffered.
Jakob1863
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I would again add, that you should have more reliable data if you present/publish such sort of accusations.
As said above, pointing to the nonsense of demonstrations without level control and questioning any claims about perceptible differences (if made) or questioning dubious claims about the physics are very good things and can be done based just on the evidence of the talk.
Anything further needs imo substantial data to back it.
As said above, pointing to the nonsense of demonstrations without level control and questioning any claims about perceptible differences (if made) or questioning dubious claims about the physics are very good things and can be done based just on the evidence of the talk.
Anything further needs imo substantial data to back it.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
- Messages
- 6,652
- Likes
- 9,403
There no doubt seem to be some emotions present in the language chosen. But this doesn't necessarily undermine his actions.
In hindsight, he'd be in a stronger (or at least more credible) position now if he'd put all his cards on the table from the beginning.
As it stands, his accusation feels legitimate to me, but it's difficult to make an informed judgement without knowing who the vendor was and how Mark's mic was positioned (could changes in the position of people around him or the means he used to conceal it have led to the 2dB discrepancy, for example?). It would also help to see the measurements and perhaps also hear directly from the attendee with the phone SPL meter. All these would lend weight to Mark's case, which is after all an accusation not just of deception but potentially also of fraud.
OTOH, naming the vendor now only after Mark has nothing left to lose might not play so well.
In hindsight, he'd be in a stronger (or at least more credible) position now if he'd put all his cards on the table from the beginning.
As it stands, his accusation feels legitimate to me, but it's difficult to make an informed judgement without knowing who the vendor was and how Mark's mic was positioned (could changes in the position of people around him or the means he used to conceal it have led to the 2dB discrepancy, for example?). It would also help to see the measurements and perhaps also hear directly from the attendee with the phone SPL meter. All these would lend weight to Mark's case, which is after all an accusation not just of deception but potentially also of fraud.
OTOH, naming the vendor now only after Mark has nothing left to lose might not play so well.
Similar threads
