@amirm You compared the power outputs and show that the ifi a USB powered device equals the Jotunheim. When if you look at the specs the balanced output puts out nearly three times the power. So I don't think you gave it a fair comparison using something that measures three times worse. Especially when that's the point of the headphone amp! More power. And perhaps more stability on varying loads. If I'm not mistaken the DAC on it is also balanced. The amp was the first that used a new form of balanced drive which Jason said he came up with.
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Review and Measurements of Schiit Jotunheim and iFi iDSD Black Label DACs and Headphone Amps
- Thread starter amirm
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #43
We don't want to see anyone disappointed here!
Here you go and I included Topping DX7s since someone asked about it:Schiit Jotunheim was set to hav 2 volt output from its "pre-out" RCA jacks in the back using the volume control. On iFi, I set the switch that forces the same for its RCA jacks. Both driven using USB. For topping, and for ease of testing, I fed it SPDIF and measured its RCA output.
BTW, this test is a refines some for speed so don't necessarily compare it to others (although it should be very close). As we see, the Schiit Jotunheim multi-bit DAC starts to do its quantization error dance (going up and down) around just 74 dB (translates into 12 bits). It stays OK until about 82 dB or so but then takes flight and errors become significant.
The iFi does better, staying pretty reasonable until 92 dB or so even a few dB higher. It has an easy 18 dB or 3 bit advantage over Schiit Jotunheim.
Of course our sigma-delta DACs like Topping DX7s nail this accuracy test, providing perfect results to 120 dB or 20 bits.
If you want to go multi-bit, then the iFi iDSD Black Edition is the DAC of choice. Otherwise, traditional technologies such as ESS DAC used in Topping DX7s remain superior.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #44
Sure. I didn't post it initially because the Oppo's 120 ohm impedance was screwing up everything else. So I took that out and this is the results:
They are both very good in this regard.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #45
Actually, no. The iFi iDSD has more power at less distortion -- both objectively and subjectively.
For anemic amps, sure. But here, both of these amps and especially the ifi have enough power to blow your eardrums into your skull!
I can't imagine anyone needing more power.I have not heard of this. Can you explain more?
As I explained, "balanced" headphone output's only job is to provide more power. Please don't confuse it with balanced line out. There is no relationship between the two despite the misleading label. "Balanced" here simply means the ground is not shared between the two channels feeding your headphones. It is a marketing pitch to make people think this type of connection to headphones is "balanced" when the headphones themselves are not ground reference anyway.
Longer term I will build a fixture for testing "balanced" outputs but right now, I don't have that setup to test.
I did not realize. Looking forward to it.Actually, no. The iFi iDSD has more power at less distortion -- both objectively and subjectively.
For anemic amps, sure. But here, both of these amps and especially the ifi have enough power to blow your eardrums into your skull!
I have not heard of this. Can you explain more?
As I explained, "balanced" headphone output's only job is to provide more power. Please don't confuse it with balanced line out. There is no relationship between the two despite the misleading label. "Balanced" here simply means the ground is not shared between the two channels feeding your headphones. It is a marketing pitch to make people think this type of connection to headphones is "balanced" when the headphones themselves are not ground reference anyway.
Longer term I will build a fixture for testing "balanced" outputs but right now, I don't have that setup to test.
@amirm I think @garbulky is right about the conclusions being premature without the xlr headphone output. atomicbob did measure the jotunheim amp, and although his power curve only spans 2mw @300 ohms, he was showing a 2.5x decrease in thd+n with balanced. If you couple that with the 3x increased power, the jotunheim amp will be superior to the ifi.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #48
Alright let me see if I can build a quickie balanced load this weekend and test. Will report back.
Hi
We are down to splitting hair so that we can find something redeeming about that pile Schiit that were so graciously tested by the King. It is consistent: These products are regularly bested objectively by products costing less...
Then again as it should be: Sh*t or Schiit always remain at the bottom ...
I have a precursor to the iFi Black Label the iDSD micro. It, also, will drive my Headphones to insane levels, I do not dare engage its "Turbo" mode..quite addictive BTW and definitely dangerous to your hearing... You push it it plays louder than you should listen to and distortion remain inexistant ... USB powered all that , It also has internal batteries...
We are down to splitting hair so that we can find something redeeming about that pile Schiit that were so graciously tested by the King. It is consistent: These products are regularly bested objectively by products costing less...
Then again as it should be: Sh*t or Schiit always remain at the bottom ...
I have a precursor to the iFi Black Label the iDSD micro. It, also, will drive my Headphones to insane levels, I do not dare engage its "Turbo" mode..quite addictive BTW and definitely dangerous to your hearing... You push it it plays louder than you should listen to and distortion remain inexistant ... USB powered all that , It also has internal batteries...
>Schiity Yotunheim
savage.
I wonder why this company has so many fanboys. And why those fanboys refuse to acknowledge the faults of these products. A bit like Apple in recent years.
I own the first Fulla (should sell it really) and it has always sounded strange to my ears. It's either garbage or it reproduces sounds in a very different way from other dac/amps I have (i.e. distorts?).
savage.
I wonder why this company has so many fanboys. And why those fanboys refuse to acknowledge the faults of these products. A bit like Apple in recent years.
I own the first Fulla (should sell it really) and it has always sounded strange to my ears. It's either garbage or it reproduces sounds in a very different way from other dac/amps I have (i.e. distorts?).
Resting in the morgue I’m real glad I tested the balanced output..
Which part in the iFi is multi-bit?
OP
OP
- Thread Starter
- #55
Through enlightenment. Need years of practice in meditation.
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In the meantime I will just have to use the interconnects I get at Best Buy.
I'd say it is more of a delta sigma than multi-bit
Fitzcaraldo215
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I am personally totally burned on on Schiit products. Not one, in meticulous testing and tear downs by Amir, has shown that it is either well engineered or constructed or sonically competitive. They are junk. Yet, the fanboys and their golden ears refuse to believe the objective evidence, and they rave on. It is a testament to the decline of expertise and of objectivity and reason in the wonderful world of 21st Century internet shouting matches. Why keep testing them? We either believe or we don't. It is beyond clear they represent nothing in the way of possible audio advances toward greater fidelity,
Unfortunately, to many, Amir, you are just "fake news". You are not going with well established, widely promulgated audiophile belief, firmly evaluated under uncontrolled, not level matched listening. How dare you? How could hundreds/thousands/millions of computer audiophiles possibly be wrong?
I personally am quite incredulous that a manufacturer could turn out such garbage, yet with apparent success. Low prices, made in USA, etc. are marketing ruses. It has happened before, but never to this audacious degree. Schiit may be perhaps the most cynically deconstructive, downright destructive manufacturer of higher fidelity on record.
Unfortunately, to many, Amir, you are just "fake news". You are not going with well established, widely promulgated audiophile belief, firmly evaluated under uncontrolled, not level matched listening. How dare you? How could hundreds/thousands/millions of computer audiophiles possibly be wrong?
I personally am quite incredulous that a manufacturer could turn out such garbage, yet with apparent success. Low prices, made in USA, etc. are marketing ruses. It has happened before, but never to this audacious degree. Schiit may be perhaps the most cynically deconstructive, downright destructive manufacturer of higher fidelity on record.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #60
Here is my shot at measuring balanced. The only load I can create is 50 ohms. Using that in balanced with Jotunheim and unbalanced with iFi iDSD Black gets this:
Until the iFi iDSD gives up at 1.1 watt, it has much less distortion and noise than Jotunheim. It has a 16 dB advantage at clipping for example which is a huge value.
As I mentioned then, the only thing balanced does is provide more power beyond what iFi iDSD can provide. And I don't know what headphone needs that.
Until the iFi iDSD gives up at 1.1 watt, it has much less distortion and noise than Jotunheim. It has a 16 dB advantage at clipping for example which is a huge value.
As I mentioned then, the only thing balanced does is provide more power beyond what iFi iDSD can provide. And I don't know what headphone needs that.
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