• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Review and Measurements of Topping D10 DAC

Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
15
Likes
1
#41
Hi @armim

Can you go the the internals at some point? Do they use a pair of crystal oscillators or just a single? And low noise linear regulators?

I know there's only so much one can expect for the price though. Just curious what they managed to squeeze in there.

Cheers
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
11,763
Likes
3,469
Location
Seattle Area
#46
Hi Amirm,

I am about to buy it. So can you please stop posting negative findings about it in the future so I am not feeling ripped off. :)
I used to listen to music for a couple of hours while building my dummy load and enjoyed every minute. So just get it and don't worry. :)
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
30
Likes
20
#47
Hi @armim

Can you go the the internals at some point? Do they use a pair of crystal oscillators or just a single? And low noise linear regulators?

I know there's only so much one can expect for the price though. Just curious what they managed to squeeze in there.

Cheers
There are some slightly blurry pictures here: http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2392916

It looks like there's just one oscillator.

I'm not sure that replacing the buffer OPA 2134 will have that much of an effect on total sound, as it's being fed by two more OPA 2134 that are surface mounted and cannot be easily swapped. Performance will at best only be equal to what the upstream opamp are able to provide.
 

Guermantes

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
129
Likes
68
Location
Brisbane, Australia
#49
I can supply another blurry shot (my phone camera is not great at close distances, sorry). My LM4562 is in the DIP socket, not the stock op amp.

I think there are three clocks: Y3 near the XMOS chip and Y2 and Y4 over near the SPDIF output stage. Perhaps someone with a better understanding of DAC topology can enlighten us.

EDIT: Just spotted Y1 over near the Sabre DAC, so four clocks?

20180320_132705_1.jpg
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
6
Likes
4
#50
I can supply another blurry shot (my phone camera is not great at close distances, sorry). My LM4562 is in the DIP socket, not the stock op amp.

I think there are three clocks: Y3 near the XMOS chip and Y2 and Y4 over near the SPDIF output stage. Perhaps someone with a better understanding of DAC topology can enlighten us.

EDIT: Just spotted Y1 over near the Sabre DAC, so four clocks?

View attachment 11572
If you like to take closeups with phone, try this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BelOMO-1...mm-85-BUDGET-RUSSIAN-VERSION-New/281948316588
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
11,763
Likes
3,469
Location
Seattle Area
#51
Hi amirm,

Can you please do a frequency response/channel balance test?
Here you go and welcome to the forum :):

Topping D10 DAC Frequency Response measurement.png


On a 1 kHz 0 dbFS tone, I get 1.496 volts (RMS) on one channel and 1.493 on the other so very excellent. Response is also nearly ruler flat to 20 kHz.

I had the Schiit Fulla in the same measurement session so left it in there for reference.

I will add this to the original review.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
59
Likes
10
#52
I can supply another blurry shot (my phone camera is not great at close distances, sorry). My LM4562 is in the DIP socket, not the stock op amp.

I think there are three clocks: Y3 near the XMOS chip and Y2 and Y4 over near the SPDIF output stage. Perhaps someone with a better understanding of DAC topology can enlighten us.

EDIT: Just spotted Y1 over near the Sabre DAC, so four clocks?

View attachment 11572
Hi, I see the relay at the top near the outpus. Are they silenced when a frequency change is happening, like going from 44 to 192 kHz or from pcm to DoP?
 

meleeli

New Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
3
Likes
0
#53
Here you go and welcome to the forum :):

View attachment 11575

On a 1 kHz 0 dbFS tone, I get 1.496 volts (RMS) on one channel and 1.493 on the other so very excellent. Response is also nearly ruler flat to 20 kHz.

I had the Schiit Fulla in the same measurement session so left it in there for reference.

I will add this to the original review.
Thanks <3
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
31
Likes
11
#54
[...]
On a 1 kHz 0 dbFS tone, I get 1.496 volts (RMS) on one channel and 1.493 on the other so very excellent. Response is also nearly ruler flat to 20 kHz.
Hm.... There is 2Vrms noted in the specs of the T10. Is it normal in your tests that the output is lower than the specs? I wanted to pair the D10 with an O2 Objective with 0 and 3,3 gain. With 1,5 Vrms output, the gain might be too low. Or am I missing something?
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
11,763
Likes
3,469
Location
Seattle Area
#55
Hm.... There is 2Vrms noted in the specs of the T10. Is it normal in your tests that the output is lower than the specs? I wanted to pair the D10 with an O2 Objective with 0 and 3,3 gain. With 1,5 Vrms output, the gain might be too low. Or am I missing something?
I am glad you asked because I too noted that it was lower than I expected at the time and meant to check again but forgot. Let me do that and report back. Specifically I want to make sure the load impedance on my AP was not set low (I do that for headphone testing).
 

Guermantes

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
129
Likes
68
Location
Brisbane, Australia
#56

Blumlein 88

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
3,238
Likes
1,381
#58
I can supply another blurry shot (my phone camera is not great at close distances, sorry). My LM4562 is in the DIP socket, not the stock op amp.

I think there are three clocks: Y3 near the XMOS chip and Y2 and Y4 over near the SPDIF output stage. Perhaps someone with a better understanding of DAC topology can enlighten us.

EDIT: Just spotted Y1 over near the Sabre DAC, so four clocks?

View attachment 11572
Yes for close ups any magnifying glass in front of the camera will do okay.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
11,763
Likes
3,469
Location
Seattle Area
#59
Hm.... There is 2Vrms noted in the specs of the T10. Is it normal in your tests that the output is lower than the specs?
OK, found the problem. The levels in Roon were less than 100%. It had remembered them when I was doing a listening test last.

I tested again and measured output voltage was 2.113 volts (RMS) on one channel and 2.108 on the other. So meets and exceeds spec. Thanks for catching this! :)
 

trl

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
86
Likes
29
Location
Iasi, RO
#60
[...]

We can see a confirmation of that in a much clearer picture as we look at the ability of the DAC to reproduce a -90 dB sine wave (at the limit of 16 bit audio):

View attachment 11520

The picture speaks for itself. The Topping D10 produces excellent output that resembles a nice sine wave whereas the Behringer UMC204HD has too low of an output and a noisier one at that.

[...]
Hi Amir,

It would be interesting to compare both DACs at exactly the same volume, eg.: around 90-100uV perhaps or -90dBV being referenced to 2V RMS and not to DAC's max. output value.

Thank you!
 
Top Bottom