Review and Measurements of Topping D50 DAC

[amirm]

Hi All, my first post in this forum. I am a casual enthusiasts, was hoping to get your opinion on using this dac for my marantz cd72mk ii se transport. If this dac is an improvement over the dac7 in my marantz, I would happily pull the trigger. Thanks .

Hi there and welcome to the forum. Unfortunately without measuring the Marantz, there is no way to know if there would be an improvement. Has anyone performed any measurements on it?

 

[Krunok]

HI there and welcome to the forum. As to your question, I don't know. I will do a teardown at some point and see if there is an IR receiver. My sense is that Topping would retain compatibility with their other remotes so likely there is no IR receiver.

I'm afraid you could be right.. Pity. Because of that I have to turn to DX7S although I have no need for headphone amp. Hopefully, DX7S has lossless volume control, unlike DX7.

 

[amirm]

Regarding volume control, you seem to be sure that it is implemented in a lossless manner? Once you open the device it would be interesting to know the details of the volume control design.
According to Shenzenaudio support guy digital volume control in DX7 was lossless.
(Question #4: https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/toppi...sb-full-balanced-dac-headphone-amplifier.html)

I don't know that I trust the one-liner answer there. Does anyone have the specs for ESS? They seem to keep their datasheets under NDA.

 

[Krunok]

I don't know that I trust the one-liner answer there. Does anyone have the specs for ESS? They seem to keep their datasheets under NDA.

DX7 was using ES9018K2M :http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en...mobile-dacs/sabre-hifi-stereo-dacs/es9018k2m/

DX7S is using ES9038Q2M for which I can't find specs but here is for 9028Q2M: http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en...mobile-dacs/sabre-hifi-stereo-dacs/es9028q2m/

As you can see both chips have "Click-free soft mute and volume control", so maybe the Shenzenaudio support guy was wrong..

 

[amirm]

Thanks. When I get a chance I plan to do a study of different volume controls in software/hardware and see what is what.

 

[Krunok]

Thanks. When I get a chance I plan to do a study of different volume controls in software/hardware and see what is what.

No problem.

Btw, wouldn't lossless volume control show as some kind of distortion on your measurements if you measure the distortion at say 50% of the volume vs 100% volume?

 

[amirm]

Btw, wouldn't lossless volume control show as some kind of distortion on your measurements if you measure the distortion at say 50% of the volume vs 100% volume?

They will all have some effect. Question is by how much and which is superior.

 

[Krunok]

They will all have some effect. Question is by how much and which is superior.

Well, maybe when you catch up some time to repeat the THD measurement of your DX7S at different volumes to see if it makes any change..

P.S. I just read "A bit of your host" and comparing the time I got my EE Degree you and I may be of a very similar age, which of course I won't disclose.

 

[junki]

@amirm Can the preamp on the D50 be disabled? If not, what setting did you use to do your measurements?

 

[amirm]

@amirm Can the preamp on the D50 be disabled? If not, what setting did you use to do your measurements?

I set it to 0 dB on the front panel for testing.

 

[Fryguy]

Can this be used driverless? Specifically curious about linux support..

 

[amirm]

That is how I used in Windows. So I would say yes.

 

[Krunok]

Received an email moments ago from Topping - unfortunately you were right: this baby is IR blind.

Regarding the drivers, as D50 uses the XU208 it is safe to say this:

With Windows 10 you may use default USB 2.0 audio driver which will provide WASAPI functionality. If you want ASIO you have to use provided driver for Windows 10.
With older Windows versions you have to use the driver for WASAPI to work as well.
Linux versions that are compliant with UAC2 don't need driver. Same goes for MacOS 10.6 (and newer) and Android 4.2 (and newer). With Android you also need OTG support and cable.

 

[Tortie]

@amirm, Hi! Do you have any opinion on whether a DAC needs dual clocks (one for 44.1kHz and another for 48kHz) and does the D50 have them?

This screenshot of a new Pioneer portable DAP has dual clocks.

 

[Wombat]

@amirm, Hi! Do you have any opinion on whether a DAC needs dual clocks (one for 44.1kHz and another for 48kHz) and does the D50 have them?

This screenshot of a new Pioneer portable DAP has dual clocks.

Claim: jitter-free sound. Hmmmm. No jitter, or can't it be heard?

 

[Krunok]

Claim: jitter-free sound. Hmmmm. No jitter, or can't it be heard?

Whatever you do you can't avoid to have some jitter, so "can't be heard" is much closer to truth IMO.

 

[Tortie]

Claim: jitter-free sound. Hmmmm. No jitter, or can't it be heard?

I wonder if having dual clocks is just a gimmick.

Does anyone know (or suspect) that Topping is gearing up to add a new headphone amplifier to pair with the D50? They have a D30/A30 stack. It seems plausible that they could offer a step up amp from the A30.

 

[Krunok]

I wonder if having dual clocks is just a gimmick.

IMO it is not. One is typically used for 44.1, 88.2, 176.4 etc and the other for 48, 96, 192 etc sample rates, so using 2 instead of one is a better design IMO.

 

[Tortie]

IMO it is not. One is typically used for 44.1, 88.2, 176.4 etc and the other for 48, 96, 192 etc sample rates, so using 2 instead of one is a better design IMO.

I can understand that. The thing that I'm not sure about is if having an additional 44.1kHz clock has a noticable impact on DAC performance that can be shown on Jitter graphs to name one example.

This D50 apparently does not have two clocks yet it tested extremely well. Maybe dual clocks designs are superfluous???

 

[Krunok]

The thing that I'm not sure about is if having an additional 44.1kHz clock has a noticable impact on DAC performance that can be shown on Jitter graphs to name one example.

Noticeable? Taking into account how modern measuring equipment is precised I wouldn't be surprised if it would be noticeable. But even if the difference can be measured there is a question if it can be heard.

I am, of course, aware that there are guys on different forums claiming that they can hear a difference when they swap a SPDIF coax cable or power cable but I was referring to the human beings with normal, not supernatural, hearing.

The question you posted can be extended to many aspects of the DAC/preamp design, like for example having separate transformers for digital and analog stages (like found in Gustard X20 Pro), or having discrete analog stage vs the one with opamps. In fact, now when I mentioned X20 Pro, I would be very interested to see how the X20 Pro compares to the Topping DX7s in measurement and especially in listening test.