Roast the cable scams!

[Objectivist01]

Had seen several people spending 100$ plus on cables for headphones like hd 6xx. They are just for looks right ? How can a cable improve the signal reaching on the other end ? Is there a measuring parameter to differentiate cable A to B which can translate into a audible difference ? What should be the minimum criteria for no interference happening ?

 

[Speedskater]

The cables themselves are well aware of purchase price and golden ear equipment reviews. The price has to be high and the reviews excellent
before the cables can sound good.

Not all cables are good cables, but all good cables sound the same.

 

[3125b]

Going by Amirs testing, a short cable will measure better than a longer one.
With most cables, digital as well as analog, he found no real difference between cheap (don't go super cheap, but decent quality) and super expensive.
One flat and fairly expensive USB cable measured better than a normal one (wich might be due to separation of data and power).
Overall, as long as the plugs fit properly and tere are no defects (as said, don't go super cheap), I really doubt you'd be able to hear any differences, even if you might be able to measure small ones.

With headphone cables in particular, impedance/resistance can make a real difference since that needs to be added to the output resistance of the amp.
Given a low impedance driver (say 20 Ohms) a very high resistance cable (say 3 Ohms) combined with the output resistance of the amp (say 1 Ohm) can change tonality. Most decent headphone cables have a low resistance (in typical length <0,3 Ohm), however there are super expensive and super cheap ones that - more or less on purpose - do not. With high impedance headphones like the 300 Ohm Sennheiser, even a very high resistance cable liekly wouldn't make an audible difference.

To sum it up: Good cables will sound the same (not at all you could say) and don't need to cost more than a couple $.

 

[Objectivist01]

Going by Amirs testing, a short cable will measure better than a longer one.
With most cables, digital as well as analog, he found no real difference between cheap (don't go super cheap, but decent quality) and super expensive.
One flat and fairly expensive USB cable measured better than a normal one (wich might be due to separation of data and power).
Overall, as long as the plugs fit properly and tere are no defects (as said, don't go super cheap), I really doubt you'd be able to hear any differences, even if you might be able to measure small ones.

With headphone cables in particular, impedance/resistance can make a real difference since that needs to be added to the output resistance of the amp.
Given a low impedance driver (say 20 Ohms) a very high resistance cable (say 3 Ohms) combined with the output resistance of the amp (say 1 Ohm) can change tonality. Most decent headphone cables have a low resistance (in typical length <0,3 Ohm), however there are super expensive and super cheap ones that - more or less on purpose - do not. With high impedance headphones like the 300 Ohm Sennheiser, even a very high resistance cable liekly wouldn't make an audible difference.

To sum it up: Good cables will sound the same (not at all you could say) and don't need to cost more than a couple $.

About the resistance, can’t we just add some real high quality resistors to the headphone cables match the impedance? I seriously don’t have much insight into this .

 

[solderdude]

There is NOTHING to match with audio cables, and certainly not with headphone cables, concerning impedance. Of course you can match colours of cables.

The only thing that technically matters with headphone cables is the resistance of common return wires when 3-wire cables are used AND the impedance of the headphone is low. For tonality to change you need a really high cable resistance.

reasons to buy another cable for headphones:
A: Your cable is broken or intermittent
B: You need another plug and don't want to use converters.
C: You need a balanced cable.
D: Your cable is very microphonic
E: You want a different length cable
F: You want a different looking cable
G: You want a more supple cable
H: You want a different diameter cable
I: or a combination of reasons above.

Don't change it because you think it will tame highs or sounds better.

 

[FrantzM]

The cables themselves are well aware of purchase price and golden ear equipment reviews. The price has to be high and the reviews excellent
before the cables can sound good.

<snip>

You have to burn them in first, to wake them up and made their awareness manifest. The best I have found so far for my Audio cables is this marvelous product. A bit expensive @ $20,000 but worth every penny.
The Quantum Burning Technology Burn-in Machine

https://www.thecableco.com/quantum-burning-technology-burn-in-machine.html

 

[solderdude]

I thought cryo was important as well.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You have to burn them in first, to wake them up and made their awareness manifest. The best I have found so far for my Audio cables is this marvelous product. A bit expensive @ $20,000 but worth every penny.
The Quantum Burning Technology Burn-in Machine
https://www.thecableco.com/quantum-burning-technology-burn-in-machine.html

I see no mention if it can be used "out of the box" or if it needs to be burned-in.

 

[Objectivist01]

I see no mention if it can be used "out of the box" or if it needs to be burned-in.

Below that cable page I saw an ad on a 1000$ cable and immediately I felt that like a viable budget option.!!

 

[oldsysop]

 

[Speedskater]

a very high resistance cable (say 3 Ohms)

3 Ohms? that would be over 100 feet of 24AWG wire.

 

[3125b]

There are some cables with that kind of resistance, most I've seen (for just two or so meters of cable) was 5 Ohms (must be using resistors in the plugs, thats not the wire itself for sure), that ... thing was linked in some old thread in this very forum.
Slap the word "audiophile" and a hefty price tag on there, and it sells - there's a sucker born every minute (I honestly like the German equivalent of this idium better).
Of course that kind of product pains me as an electrician and nobody has any reason to buy something like that, for a lot of money no less. However, it's out there.
The worst I've seen on "regular" cables is a cheap replacement for HiFiMAN headphone cables, where someone measured 1 Ohm for 1.5m of cable (and no, I don't know how the manufacturer managed to do that).

 

[Jimbob54]

I thought cryo was important as well.

And SolderP (TM)

 

[Sal1950]

What respectable manufacturer would supply a cable with it's headphones that would degrade it's sound?

 

[3125b]

Philips on the X1. Well, I'm not sure it actually makes a difference in that case, but 1.8 Ohms is quite a lot (https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1 ).
I just measured the original cable of my HE-35X, and the resistance is negligible (approx. 2x0.2=0.4 Ohms).

 

[JeffS7444]

The worst I've seen on "regular" cables is a cheap replacement for HiFiMAN headphone cables, where someone measured 1 Ohm for 1.5m of cable (and no, I don't know how the manufacturer managed to do that).

Ooh, nichrome wire must be the "secret sauce", I totally need to take that one to the bank.

 

[Speedskater]

There are some cables with that kind of resistance, most I've seen (for just two or so meters of cable) was 5 Ohms (must be using resistors in the plugs, thats not the wire itself for sure), that ... thing was linked in some old thread in this very forum.

Bob Carver had a switch on some of his amplifiers that would put a resistor in series with the audio output.

 

[solderdude]

Philips on the X1. Well, I'm not sure it actually makes a difference in that case, but 1.8 Ohms is quite a lot (https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1 ).
I just measured the original cable of my HE-35X, and the resistance is negligible (approx. 2x0.2=0.4 Ohms).

The difference between a 1.8 Ohm and 0.5 Ohm cable would mean a 0.05dB difference in bass levels (around 70Hz).
Damping factor would change between 10 and 35 (assuming 0 Ohm amp) which isn't problematic given the fact that little damping seems to come from the electrical path.
It would also mean that for stereo signals channel separation would differ between 37dB and 26dB.
The 26dB is potentially audible.
It would not be like a normal crosstalk though, as in channel separation getting smaller but mono signals getting relatively softer due to mono signals getting a bit more cancelled as they will be in counterphase. The effect thus differs from normal crosstalk.

 

[Objectivist01]

And SolderP (TM)

Silver solder.

 

[Jimbob54]

Silver solder.

Depends what he drunk last night...