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Tariffs on electrical goods

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DuxServit

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I know I may take a bit of flack for this, but: "0%". I don't care about country of origin, because the whole premise feels flawed to me: what constitutes "made in"? Does it mean final assembly? Individual component construction? Raw material sourcing? Original design? Retail location? And why should I care one way or the other? Is this like baseball, where I'm always supposed to root for the home team? :) (And that's as far as I'll go down that path, since I'm pretty sure discussions of nationalism are seriously off-topic for ASR.)

Even the question itself assumes the reader is a US citizen or cares about US interests, and I'm pretty sure we have a few Chinese folks contributing here. :)

So the honesty in vendor reporting (the manufacturing origins of components and assembly) is a separate question. My question assumes the consumer is given enough information to make a decision. This is true across all products and goods (e.g. cars, appliances, pharmaceuticals, etc).

It is ok if you personally do not care (i.e vote for zero percent). I'm for freedom of choice :)

>>> Even the question itself assumes the reader is a US citizen or cares about
>>> US interests, and I'm pretty sure we have a few Chinese folks contributing here.

Correct in my case. But the question also applies generally to any person in any country. For example, a Chinese citizens living in China may consciously choose Audio-GD instead of Benchmark.
 

DuxServit

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This is an unintelligent question. Because the answer is obvious. In the social sciences there are less direct links, less direct cause-effect, less one-period analysis; instead, social sciences are more «chaotic» due to subtleties, ripple effects, many-period settings, behaviour that changes etc.

If the question were something like «would you like to pay 30 percent more for certain imports if you got a 10 percent increase in wage, plus insurance and a more stable job», I guess people would answer differently.

Needless to say, asking audio related questions is easier than asking questions about our society.

I don’t know if you’re American, but if you are, you would probably know that the USA became an industrial nation as it disregarded English economists’ advice to practice free-trade. Instead, the USA took off as a nation while practicing protectionist policies to build up its own industrial base to produce higher value add products instead of supplying foreigners with cheap raw materials and unfinished goods.

:)

I agree with some of your points, and social behavior certainly plays a big influence. But social behavior in modern information-based society (like the US) is driven much by the information communicated by old media and social-media platforms.

People copy each other. So if your buddy has brand X, then there is a greater than average likelihood that you will drift towards choosing X.

>>> If the question were something like «would you like to pay 30 percent more for certain
>>> imports if you got a 10 percent increase in wage, plus insurance and a more stable job»,
>>> I guess people would answer differently.

This is a more complex question. Most consumers don't think like this, unfortunately :)

So I would say that my question is not "unintelligent", but rather it is a slightly more complex choice -- but entirely reasonable -- than the usual (maybe subconscious) choice of "I will buy the cheapest product".
 

DuxServit

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Should national governments try to ensure that any public procurement decisions favour their own manufacturers?

It depends on whether the goods/product/service is important for national security and therefore national sovereignty. Here, in particular I'm referring to electronic infrastructure products, such as routers, switches and comms equipment, etc. etc.
 

Thomas savage

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.... While copying shamelessly the intellectual properties of then megapower England ...
Please people take some time to read this (Please click here) ... sobering

History redux ...
Ha ha, too true lol

Being British I’m well used to the feeling inspired when one is beaten at their own game.
 

FrantzM

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The genius of China is doing that IP theft strategy while ensuring no other countries will be able to do the same to them
Not sure I follow. How would they accomplish that?
 

Palladium

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Not sure I follow. How would they accomplish that?

Because its not going to work against a country that actually has a unified long term top-to-bottom economic strategy to defend themselves. Their secret to success always boils down to playing a long game.

The West lost most of their manufacturing base to Asia because corporations sold themselves to the lowest outsourcing bidder just to boost the next quarter profit numbers, then their respective governments just let that happen, either because they are in cahoots with the corps anyway or are sidetracked by #231093813 hot button political topic of the week or the next election cycle for votes.
 

RayDunzl

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amirm

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We have moved up the food chain in production. China supplies the parts for iPhone and builds it. Yet Apple makes far more profit than all the component providers on each iPhone sale.

Looking at trade as dollar amount is wrong in this regard. It is the profits that matter.
 

Cosmik

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We have moved up the food chain in production. China supplies the parts for iPhone and builds it. Yet Apple makes far more profit than all the component providers on each iPhone sale.

Looking at trade as dollar amount is wrong in this regard. It is the profits that matter.
Is outsourcing a Good Thing, then? Does the average American benefit from having Apple phones made in China? Does the average Chinese person benefit from this, too?
 

svart-hvitt

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We have moved up the food chain in production. China supplies the parts for iPhone and builds it. Yet Apple makes far more profit than all the component providers on each iPhone sale.

Looking at trade as dollar amount is wrong in this regard. It is the profits that matter.

Do you think an economy the size of the USA can consist of designers and software developers only?

And if you disconnect design from production, do you think - over time - that the design department will excel, or is there learning from production to design as well.

These are some of the questions under scientific scrutiny at MIT:

http://web.mit.edu/pie/
 

Wombat

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Is outsourcing a Good Thing, then? Does the average American benefit from having Apple phones made in China? Does the average Chinese person benefit from this, too?

When have private investors of capital, large or small, given much credence to the wider financial affect unless they can use it to support their proposition? It is about personal return, isn't it? Of course there may be isolated exceptions, who are labelled as Socialists. o_O
 

Cosmik

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When have private investors of capital, large or small, given much credence to the wider financial affect unless they can use it to support their proposition? It is about personal return, isn't it? Of course there may be isolated exceptions, who are labelled as Socialists. o_O
Talk of the 'moving up the food chain' makes it sound as though someone somewhere has thought things through, and found that unhindered outsourcing is a thoroughly Good Thing for everyone involved. I'm not convinced.

I'm very interested in the contradictions that fall out of this sort of thing. Rapacious capitalism leads naturally to globalisation. Yet a US president who institutes policies to curb his country's part in globalisation is portrayed as practically a fascist. In the meantime the rapacious capitalist globalists don fig leaves of caring, sharing, fluffy socialism, and the nice, fluffy so-called liberals fall for it. In the process they signal their complete disdain for the people who are the heart of America. It's a fascinating thing to watch.
 

Wombat

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Financial disdain for the less fortunate is embedded in dog-eat-dog wealth accumulation. It seems to be conscience salving.
 

FrantzM

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Talk of the 'moving up the food chain' makes it sound as though someone somewhere has thought things through, and found that unhindered outsourcing is a thoroughly Good Thing for everyone involved. I'm not convinced.

I'm very interested in the contradictions that fall out of this sort of thing. Rapacious capitalism leads naturally to globalisation. Yet a US president who institutes policies to curb his country's part in globalisation is portrayed as practically a fascist. In the meantime the rapacious capitalist globalists don fig leaves of caring, sharing, fluffy socialism, and the nice, fluffy so-called liberals fall for it. In the process they signal their complete disdain for the people who are the heart of America. It's a fascinating thing to watch.
I am not sure that such portrayal stems from his protectionist views ...
 

Cosmik

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I am not sure that such portrayal stems from his protectionist views ...
I thought I was exaggerating somewhat, but apparently not! :)

If someone else had the idea of increasing tariffs on imports, would you be for it or against it?
 

andreasmaaan

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Talk of the 'moving up the food chain' makes it sound as though someone somewhere has thought things through, and found that unhindered outsourcing is a thoroughly Good Thing for everyone involved. I'm not convinced.

I'm very interested in the contradictions that fall out of this sort of thing. Rapacious capitalism leads naturally to globalisation. Yet a US president who institutes policies to curb his country's part in globalisation is portrayed as practically a fascist. In the meantime the rapacious capitalist globalists don fig leaves of caring, sharing, fluffy socialism, and the nice, fluffy so-called liberals fall for it. In the process they signal their complete disdain for the people who are the heart of America. It's a fascinating thing to watch.

Mostly agree with this, although I don't know if you can really call it globalisation when capital moves freely while labour does not (i.e. as long as borders are open to the outsourcing of production but closed to the movement of people).

At least by tying these freedoms together (i.e. goods, services, labour and capital), the "rapacious capitalists" (good phrase) behind the EU showed they understood this.

EDIT: btw people are not calling Trump a fascist because of his flirtation with protectionism, but because of his anti-immigrant and racist statements, his authoritarian posturing, and his disdain for democratic (or at least establishment) processes and institutions.

And he's hardly going to be able to reignite manufacturing in the US with the measures he's introduced so far (or for that matter whichever way he ultimately rearranges the deck chairs).
 
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