Technically, what exactly is TUBEY sound?

[LaLaLard]

I would like to know what is the scientific reason behind the "attractiveness" of tubey sound.

My impression is as below:

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
1. Tubes boosts mid-low frequencies which makes vocal more forward-sounding;
2. Rolls off high frequency and reduces low bass, which makes low-mid-range even more forward-sounding;
3. The reduced high frequency usually compensates for bad room-acounstic, especially rooms with too much reflection, which is where 90% of "audiophiles" listen to their system;
4. The reduced low bass reduces the significance of room mode.

DISTORTION
1. Some tube amps introduce more even harmonic Distortion compared to solid states;
2. This makes bass and mid-low frequencies sound "thicker" and more immersive;
3. More even harmonics adds that "metallic" colour to instruments and female voice which some people prefer.

Decay
1. Some tube amps got longer decay, which compensates for weak bass some times;
2. Which also makes studio-recorded vocal sound less "dry" sometimes.

CLIPPING
1. Old tube amps tend to have higher distortion than modern tube amps;
2. Back in the time it was rare to see amps with more than 20Wpc of output therefore most of amps would go into clipping when playing music;
3. Tubes sounds much more tolerable when going into clipping compared to early solid states;
4. People then believed tubes sound better;
5. Also the same reason that why some people claim "high powered/expensive SS sound more like tube". Is it simply due to the fact that they clip less frequently?

I concluded the above on myself after years of observation and discussion with my friends, some of them got technical background but most of them don't.

Please let me know what I've concluded wrong or what else would you like to add on!

 

[Wombat]

Well designed Hifi tube amplifiers sound pretty much the same as well designed HiFi SS amplifiers.

E.g. Williamson Amplifier

Most tube amps are done-on-the-cheap or compromised for 'tone'.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If you want to experience the sound, at good quality, I'd suggest streaming (if they are available I don't know) or purchasing some of the CD reissues of the Mercury Living Prescence recordings done on 35 mm film. Those used tube U47 microphones, tubed gear for everything, and went to the optical tracks of 35 mm film instead of reel to reel tape. The 35 mm film for recording sound was quite a step up in transparency vs RTR. And the ways it wasn't of great fidelity are not different than tubed gear. I don't know if the 35 mm based Everest recordings are available anywhere, but that is another source. Though I felt the Everests for reasons unknown to me were a little light weight below 100 hz.

 

[RayDunzl]

You made me look at Cinema sound formats...

I might even go to a theater soon, not having been in one since 1999 or so.

 

[Blumlein 88]

You made me look at Cinema sound formats...


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I might even go to a theater soon, not having been in one since 1999 or so.

May I ask what feature film is enticing you to return to the theater?

I go about 2 or 3 times a year. One a few years back was a 3D showing of Prometheus. Not a bad movie in my opinion. I wanted to see it, was working lots of hours, but had a Tuesday evening clear to watch it. No one else was there for the late Tuesday showing. So this large up to date theater had a showing just for me. I'm sure they weren't happy as the theater doesn't have to pay the fee for showing if no tickets are sold. And mine was the only one that late evening. The last week they were showing it. I would have preferred other people there. On the other hand, shoot, better than watching it at home if no one else is there to bother you.

I do now have a good sized projector setup and my visits to the theater are lower than in year's past. I wished people making these movies would catch on and offer quality streaming in the opening weeks. I don't want to go to the theater. I've a big screen, excellent surround sound, and the convenience of watching at home with my friends. I'll pay a few bucks for that and the move companies are missing out on my revenue.

 

[BillG]

I concluded the above on myself after years of observation and discussion with my friends, some of them got technical background but most of them don't.

I run this Analog Modeling System DSP software quite often to get a "tubey" sound. Below are the parameters its engineers chose to target in that pursuit:

 

[Wombat]

I run this Analog Modeling System DSP software quite often to get a "tubey" sound. Below are the parameters its engineers chose to target in that pursuit:

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A subjective tubey sound ala 'phile opinions?

 

[BillG]

A subjective tubey sound ala 'phile opinions?

I wouldn't know since I'm not an audiophile, or scientist/engineer that works in a related field. Now, if you're just being snarky, go play with someone else...

 

[Wombat]

I wouldn't know since I'm not an audiophile, or scientist/engineer that works in a related field. Now, if you're just being snarky, go play with someone else...

I'm not being snarky.

My earlier post was clear about HiFi sound in tube based amplifiers. Tone boxes are commonplace in SS circuits, often trying to emulate the coloured sound of some inferior tube amps or purposefully tinted ones, especially in the music recording/effects market but also for the 'phile market.

Effects units

I used to make tube guitar amps. They are basically effects units. No HiFi wanted, even on so-called 'clean' guitar amps. I do know that tube amps do not need to be afflicted with a 'tubey' sound. 'Tubey' sound does not belong in HiFi. Music making and recording is a different matter.

I guess it depends on which sandpit you wish to play in.

 

[Wombat]

Simply, tubey-sound comes from operating vacuum tube circuits/components outside of linear requirement..

 

[M00ndancer]

I do now have a good sized projector setup and my visits to the theater are lower than in year's past. I wished people making these movies would catch on and offer quality streaming in the opening weeks. I don't won't to go to the theater. I've a big screen, excellent surround sound, and the convenience of watching at home with my friends. I'll pay a few bucks for that and the move companies are missing out on my revenue.

I'm in a similar situation, only 55 inch 1080p screen, but almost sitting at THX distance, with an ok 5.1 Surround system. Most of the time I have better image and superior sound compared to the crappy cinemas around here. The only thing I'm really missing is the larger screen and the 3D (but that's mostly a gimmick). End result is that I very seldom go to the movies.

 

[Wombat]

I'm in a similar situation, only 55 inch 1080p screen, but almost sitting at THX distance, with an ok 5.1 Surround system. Most of the time I have better image and superior sound compared to the crappy cinemas around here. The only thing I'm really missing is the larger screen and the 3D (but that's mostly a gimmick). End result is that I very seldom go to the movies.

Size and viewing distance are tied together. If you go too big or too close the 'talking heads' look like monoliths.

 

[Sal1950]

Well designed Hifi tube amplifiers sound pretty much the same as well designed HiFi SS amplifiers.

They can be built to a level near transparent though expensive to execute and not without their own problems.
On the other hand we have things like todays SET's and others that are built to provide a very particular sound.
For a taste of the best of "tube" sound. pick up one of David Manley's ViTaL Records CDs.
Made with tube amplification from the mikes to the two track RTR tape the SQ can be stunning.
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue65/manley_recordings.htm

 

[Sal1950]

May I ask what feature film is enticing you to return to the theater?

Depends on the theater your speaking of.
I have a fairly decent multich rig here and it can do an impressive job when called upon.
But when one of the big blockbuster hightech movies comes out, such as something from the StarWars or StarTrek series, I'll take the time and spent the money to see it at my local IMAX. It would take a VERY high end home theater to approach the impact and complete immersion that can be experienced in a super cinema.

 

[M00ndancer]

at my local IMAX

This, if only there was one close by. Closest on is 650 km away... or in another country (Denmark)

 

[pkane]

May I ask what feature film is enticing you to return to the theater?

I go about 2 or 3 times a year. One a few years back was a 3D showing of Prometheus. Not a bad movie in my opinion. I wanted to see it, was working lots of hours, but had a Tuesday evening clear to watch it. No one else was there for the late Tuesday showing. So this large up to date theater had a showing just for me. I'm sure they weren't happy as the theater doesn't have to pay the fee for showing if no tickets are sold. And mine was the only one that late evening. The last week they were showing it. I would have preferred other people there. On the other hand, shoot, better than watching it at home if no one else is there to bother you.

I do now have a good sized projector setup and my visits to the theater are lower than in year's past. I wished people making these movies would catch on and offer quality streaming in the opening weeks. I don't want to go to the theater. I've a big screen, excellent surround sound, and the convenience of watching at home with my friends. I'll pay a few bucks for that and the move companies are missing out on my revenue.

I go maybe once a year. Just had my annual visit yesterday, watched The Lion King on IMAX. For someone who spent some time on early 3D modeling software and created some early commercial 3D video games, the graphics in this movie are simply amazing! Worth watching just to see a glimpse of the future of computer generated cinema.

 

[M00ndancer]

Size and viewing distance are tied together. If you go too big or too close the 'talking heads' look like monoliths.

Keeping things at THX distances makes it perfect, in my case that would be a 4K 72 inch TV where we sit now in the living room.
Sorry for the OT. Might move this to another thread.

 

[SIY]

Tube sound means "bright, forward, alive" and "laid back, mellow, and soft."

 

[Sal1950]

Tube sound means "bright, forward, alive" and "laid back, mellow, and soft."

Both at the same time?

 

[watchnerd]

I don't know if the 35 mm based Everest recordings are available anywhere, but that is another source

They've been reissued, both as LPs (largest portion) and digital downloads (some of them):

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&searchtext=everest

I don't have any of the LPs (as a rule, I forbid classical on vinyl in my collection), but I do have half a dozen of the digital downloads. They're quite good.