The sound quality of DSD?

[andymok]

Is that what might be called “slew rate” in an engineering text book? If not, what?

bandwidth

 

[Esotechnik]

bandwidth

From 2006 - degradation detected.

Power amp Halcro DM68 (2005):
"Recovery from hard overload at 20kHz into 4ohms: 1µs."

CD vs.SACD:
"In one PCM sample time where the CD version of a recording slews 30,000 steps, the DSD version of the same recording will slew 64 steps."
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/41019-slew-rate-limit-sacd-post712020.html

 

[Pluto]

Who cares how many quantizing steps exist between consecutive samples? As long as a 0dBFS sine wave just below the Nyquist point can be reproduced with minimal distortion, what more do you actually want?

 

[mansr]

CD vs.SACD:
"In one PCM sample time where the CD version of a recording slews 30,000 steps, the DSD version of the same recording will slew 64 steps."

That makes even less sense than your previous ramblings.

 

[Esotechnik]

what more do you actually want?

Music signal is random, not sine wave.
If your DAC (arbitrary waveform generator) cannot precisely reproduce single impulse, it cannot reproduce the stream of samples (digital music) correctly.

That makes even less sense than your previous ramblings.

DSD 2.9 GHz = lossless PCM 44/16:
See page 9: https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/ip_documentation/xps_deltasigma_dac.pdf

 

[Jimbob54]

Music signal is random, not sine wave.
If your DAC (arbitrary waveform generator) cannot precisely reproduce single impulse, it cannot reproduce the stream of samples (digital music) correctly.

DSD 2.9 GHz 1bit = lossless PCM 44/16 and vice versa.
See page 9: https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/ip_documentation/xps_deltasigma_dac.pdf

Wise man say, if you find yourself at odds with both Pluto and Mansr on a technical aspect of D to A conversion, its a fair bet either you are wrong or possibly not putting your point across in a way that can be understood by those working in the field in question.

 

[Pluto]

Music signal is random, not sine wave.
If your DAC (arbitrary waveform generator) cannot precisely reproduce single impulse, it cannot reproduce the stream of samples (digital music) correctly

Does an untruth, when repeated with sufficient frequency, suddenly become the truth or does it, like evolution, take a period of time?

 

[RayDunzl]

Music signal is random

Random = white noise.

 

[RayDunzl]

If your DAC (arbitrary waveform generator) cannot precisely reproduce single impulse, it cannot reproduce the stream of samples (digital music) correctly.

What does 1 DSD bit produce?

 

[pkane]

Music signal is random, not sine wave.

Make sure Shannon, Nyquist, and Whittaker don't hear you say that!

Does an untruth, when repeated with sufficient frequency, suddenly become the truth or does it, like evolution, take a period of time?

It's all about the slew rate of the untruth, of course

What does 1 DSD bit produce?

One hand clapping?

 

[Esotechnik]

if you find yourself at odds with both Pluto and Mansr on a technical aspect of D to A conversion

If their designs cannot reproduce music track or white noise in the DAC-ADC loop with accuracy after subtracting in/out 120 dB (true 20 bits in analog domain), their theories must be corrected.

80 dB correlation in old DAC+ADC only: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14767195&postcount=2023

Why didn't any of the modern manufacturers get to the top of that rating, taking advantage of years of experience?

 

[Esotechnik]

What does 1 DSD bit produce?

Very small and short pulse, not necessarily the one that was programmed (saved) in the phonogram for an arbitrary waveform.

 

[SIY]

So if you violate Shannon Nyquist, then Shannon Nyquist isn’t applicable. Profound!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Random = white noise.

I have that album!

 

[Esotechnik]

So if you violate Shannon Nyquist

Many modern D-S ADC chips violate Shannon Nyquist due marketing "optimisation" (freq. range 2-22000 Hz +/-0.001 dB @ 44100 Hz).
CS5396 - digital filter optimized for audio (stopband min. 0.5542 fs, attenuation >117 dB)
CS5397 - non-aliasing digital filter (stopband min. 0.4979 fs, attenuation >117 dB)

PCM4222 classic filter (sharpest) - Stop band 0.5465×fs
Stop band attenuation 100 dB.

AK5574, sharp roll-off filter, Fs=48kHz:
Stopband min. 27.9 kHz (0.58125 Fs)
Stopband attenuation 85 dB
(Hello, Nyquist, from 2015!)
And this partly explains the low correlation depth (45-53 dB) in the loop test RME ADI-2 "pro" on gearslutz.
PCM4222 demo board and 1bit 64x ADC (Focusrite Blue 245, 1996 yr, 16/20 bit output) is winners in DA/AD loop overall rating (78-80 dB in/out correlation)!

 

[SIY]

A chip doesn’t violate Shannon Nyquist. Signals do, including the ones you proposed.

 

[Esotechnik]

The last theoretically flawless audio ADC device for PCM was released in 1999:
Frequency response:
Fs 32kHz, 18 Hz-13,5 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 44,1kHz, 18 Hz-18,8 kHz:±0.1dB - ugly for dummies!
Fs 48kHz, 18 Hz-20,0 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 64kHz, 18 Hz-25,0 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 88,2kHz, 18 Hz-35,0 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 96kHz, 18 Hz-38,0 kHz:±0.1dB

http://www.digitalaudio.dk/media/1User_manual_2402.pdf
And no one has checked it on gearslutz yet.

 

[krabapple]

What is the sound of one pot cracking?

 

[AndyLu]

The last theoretically flawless audio ADC device for PCM was released in 1999:
Frequency response:
Fs 32kHz, 18 Hz-13,5 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 44,1kHz, 18 Hz-18,8 kHz:±0.1dB - ugly for dummies!
Fs 48kHz, 18 Hz-20,0 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 64kHz, 18 Hz-25,0 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 88,2kHz, 18 Hz-35,0 kHz:±0.1dB
Fs 96kHz, 18 Hz-38,0 kHz:±0.1dB

http://www.digitalaudio.dk/media/1User_manual_2402.pdf
And no one has checked it on gearslutz yet.

If you throw enough nonsense against a wall, maybe some of it will stick, but than you still have a dirty wall.

 

[Esotechnik]

Well, show an example of lossless conversion PCM 44/16 to DSD and back, if you are so smart. Without 2.9 GHz bitstream.
And none of the deaf delta-sigma converters fans have achieved 16 bit (96 dB) of digital precision in the analog loop on a music track.
On "24-bit" or 1-bit "hi-res" systems