Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[DanielT]

But I do not understand what is the problem now? It seems to be a good amplifier for its relatively low power. Then it will be what it will be. Amir showed its effect. Then you have to make sure you have sufficiently efficient speakers and / or play music that does not place any major demands on the amplifier. Maybe let an active sub take care of the frequencies below 80-100 Hz.

Edit:
Lambda wrote basically the same thing I see now.
Edit 2 and Tonycollinet.

Does A More Powerful Amplifier Make Speakers Sound Better?

Does A More Powerful Amplifier Make Speakers Sound Better?

audiosciencereview.com

 

[0bs3rv3r]

If it has insufficient power for the users speakers to generate the SPL they want.

But that's a different thing. That's insufficient power, not gain.

 

[antcollinet]

But that's a different thing. That's insufficient power, not gain.

The question was "how can it be not loud enough if it has enough gain" (Paraphrased)

The answer is "not enough power"

 

[0bs3rv3r]

The question was "how can it be not loud enough if it has enough gain" (Paraphrased)

The answer is "not enough power"

I agree but digging further back in the discussion, it originated from someone saying that low level recordings were the problem, and modern recordings were fine. So, the power is sufficient, and so is gain in the normal situation, and recording levels are the real problem here (requiring extra gain), or if peaks in the music are close to clipping, then a large dynamic range is the problem.

 

[Paco De Lucia]

I can amplify 5db that Uakti record before clipping. Roon has an indicator.

But even then, PA5 is not driving it hard enough for my speakers.
I get more oomph from A07 with 48V/7.3a from that same recording amped 5db. Simple as that. Topping must produce a preamp in this form factor? Maybe not as it may be their desktop solution...
Sadly enough, lack of auto sensing or trigger power option for the amp, and lack of preamp don't make it the be all end all living room power amp i was craving for, its for my specific needs.

Just potential user may be aware of the lack of gain is a real issue in my use case.

I wouldn't be rambling if it was good enough for me!
More power to those for whom it is

Its just my user experience, yours may be different. But i honestly am confronting the fact that PA5 lacks a little bit of gain.

What output mode are you using on the E50 ?

 

[antcollinet]

I agree but digging further back in the discussion, it originated from someone saying that low level recordings were the problem, and modern recordings were fine. So, the power is sufficient, and so is gain in the normal situation, and recording levels are the real problem here (requiring extra gain), or if peaks in the music are close to clipping, then a large dynamic range is the problem.

The recording is the recording. If you want to play that recording louder, and you've already cranked the volume up to max, the only solution is a more powerful amp.

 

[Lambda]

I agree but digging further back in the discussion, it originated from someone saying that low level recordings were the problem,

But there is no problem. even if the recording is only at -4dBFS peak your still getting full power out of the amp
If the recording is maxed out at -4dB it is either a bad recording. or intended to be played 4dB softer compared to the rest of the album.
But you can still add digital gain!

, and modern recordings were fine. So, the power is sufficient,

1W Peak of "modern" or compressed music can be loud.
10W peak of higly dynamic music might be way quieter then the 1W compressed music.

36V is and 50W is plenty of power for compressed pop music mastered for phone speakers.
But it is not for some "high dynamic" music.

 

[sarumbear]

The recording is the recording. If you want to play that recording louder, and you've already cranked the volume up to max, the only solution is a more powerful amp.

I doubt you will get any louder by increasing the amplifier power. You must increase the gain of the amplifier chain.

SPL increase between a 50W and 100W amplifier is just 3dB.

 

[antcollinet]

I doubt you will get any louder by increasing the amplifier power. You must increase the gain of the amplifier chain.

SPL increase between a 50W and 100W amplifier is just 3dB.

True - but to increase the gain you also need to increase the power. You can't have more power without more gain, and you need an amp that can drive the power if you apply more gain. Applying more gain to an already maxed out amp will just drive it into clipping.

Put it another way - xdb more gain will require xdb more power from the amp.

 

[BoredErica]

I feel like this forum needs a power spreadsheet that people can copy on Google sheets to calculate for themselves how much power they need. Check the box for the music DR (compressed pop, high dr, ludicrous dr for the paranoid), listening distance, speaker efficiency, etc.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

I feel like this forum needs a power spreadsheet that people can copy on Google sheets to calculate for themselves how much power they need. Check the box for the music DR (compressed pop, high dr, ludicrous dr for the paranoid), listening distance, speaker efficiency, etc.

They won't believe the results, guaranteed.

 

[DanielT]

True - but to increase the gain you also need to increase the power. You can't have more power without more gain, and you need an amp that can drive the power if you apply more gain. Applying more gain to an already maxed out amp will just drive it into clipping.

Put it another way - xdb more gain will require xdb more power from the amp.

Clipping is not fun.

 

[antcollinet]

I feel like this forum needs a power spreadsheet that people can copy on Google sheets to calculate for themselves how much power they need. Check the box for the music DR (compressed pop, high dr, ludicrous dr for the paranoid), listening distance, speaker efficiency, etc.

There are a number of online calculators.

Here is one

HiFi Loudspeaker Design

www.mh-audio.nl

 

[0bs3rv3r]

Thanks for that link. This is my listening situation

 

[antcollinet]

That's what you get with sensitive speakers.

Though if the 90dB SPL is what you want as an average, rather than a peak, you might want to up the headroom to cope wiht the crest factor of your typical music.

 

[BoredErica]

That's what you get with sensitive speakers.

Though if the 90dB SPL is what you want as an average, rather than a peak, you might want to up the headroom to cope wiht the crest factor of your typical music.

I was talking about a calculator that tries to factor in the crest factor. That's why I talked about the track DR.

 

[antcollinet]

I was talking about a calculator that tries to factor in the crest factor. That's why I talked about the track DR.

Put the crest factor in the amp headroom box and you're more or less good to go. Increase it further if you want headroom above the crest.

 

[D700]

Tongue twister of the day award

Though if I was in the market for a Speakers Selector Switch Switcher Splitter to be known from now on as a SSSSS
I would be after one of these bad boys.

Everyone loves a big Meter.

Topping, if you are listening, hide a PA5 in the case behind those meters and sell for the big bucks. Except here, we get a break.

 

[Doodski]

Topping, if you are listening, hide a PA5 in the case behind those meters and sell for the big bucks. Except here, we get a break.

Yes, for sure and also add a backlit illumination dimmer control. To get really funky use RGB lighting control so the user can set it and perhaps even have it tied into the motherboard lighting interface. But, seriously it's a great idea with the meters. @JohnYang1997

 

[BoredErica]

Put the crest factor in the amp headroom box and you're more or less good to go. Increase it further if you want headroom above the crest.

That works, as does just addition and subtraction. I think having a reference right next to a calculator makes it more foolproof though. In order to put crest factor into the headroom box unprompted I have to know what crest factor is in the first place. It's not a huge deal either way. I see crest factor being brought up multiple times and figure it'd help slightly.


Ok on an unrelated note, I have a question. So input sensitivity of 2.6vrms means if dac outputs over 2.6vrms into pa5 it clips and bad things happen. Then what happens if my dac was on the other extreme and can't deliver all 2.6vrms? Say, only 1.3vrms. Would that result in only a fourth of max power?