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Turntable advice requested, please!

Phorize

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Not sure if your budget can accommodate, but the Marantz TT-15 will fill your needs.


Music direct has a refurbished one at $1350 and new ones for $1799. This table is a package done by Clearaudio for Marantz. The table is their Emotion model, the arm is a Satisfy, and the cartridge is a Virtuoso MM. The motor is AC synchro with a double pulley to change speeds. I don't know what the table lists for, but the arm lists for $2000 and the cartridge $1100. As a pre setup package, it really is all anyone would ever need. The simplicity translates to lifetime reliability. Belts and cartridges are your maintenance items. Music Direct has a 60 day trial, so you have protection from dissatisfaction.
I own one of these and they are great in the stock configuration but the VTA adjustment is crude so if the OP is considering using a different cart a similarly priced technics would probably be better.
 

mike70

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Bob from Florida

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I own one of these and they are great in the stock configuration but the VTA adjustment is crude so if the OP is considering using a different cart a similarly priced technics would probably be better.
I thought the VTA adjustment on that table was to loosen the set screw and lift or lower the tonearm base.
 

Phorize

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I thought the VTA adjustment on that table was to loosen the set screw and lift or lower the tonearm base.
It is, but the mechanism doesn’t help you, it’s all freehand and unmeasured.
 
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Bob from Florida

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It is, but the mechanism does help you, it’s all freehand and unmeasured.
Until I added the VTA adjuster to my Performance DC, that was how I adjusted every arm I owned. I would use a vernier caliper to measure distance from the bottom of the arm pivot base to the top of the turntable. That was my reference for increasing or decreasing the pivot base height. Some company makes set screws with a teflon tip that keeps friction on the arm base so it does not "drop" when loosened. My Graham Robin had that and it was very functional.
 

mike70

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Technics everyday ... best technology since 70s ... the bad marketing against Technics from classic british / european brands was silly, now they have all the stuff they blamed: quartz locked speed, VTA setting, detachable headshells, direct drive motors. Now this stuff is cool, shameful.
 

Bob from Florida

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Technics everyday ... best technology since 70s ... the bad marketing against Technics from classic british / european brands was silly, now they have all the stuff they blamed: quartz locked speed, VTA setting, detachable headshells, direct drive motors. Now this stuff is cool, shameful.
Yes, the Technics looks and rates pretty well when tested. However, electronic speed controls and CPU oversight falls in the "fancy living" category. We all have stuff of this category that works well until it doesn't. Then you get it fixed - assuming you can. My Performance DC has electronic speed control that can fail. The Marantz TT-15 has an AC motor unlikely to fail and moving the belt to another pulley to change speed is bulletproof. Will speed be more accurate on the Technics? Probably. Will you hear it? Maybe, maybe not. The $4000 model from Technics looks most cool overall to me, but if I were to get another table - unlikely - I would look at one of these. The unusual design gets my attention.

1666655626722.png
 

dlaloum

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A better cartridge might improve the frequency response and the tracking but you can tweak frequency response with EQ and if you are playing older records they often had rolled-off highs and you might want to boost the high even with a "perfect" cartridge. You can go "crazy high-end" with a cartridge (or anything vinyl/analog related) but you'll never get "digital quality". I have what was Shure's best cartridge which was about $100 and personally I wouldn't bother with anything more expensive (although you'd have to allow for inflation since the vinyl days.)


If I was buying a new turntable I'd be looking at about that $500 price range for the turntable, cartridge, and preamp. I'd actually try to find a turntable with a built-in preamp and personally, I'd probably get one with USB since I'd only use it for occasionally digitizing records. (Every USB turntable has a preamp, which sometimes can be bypassed.)

I wouldn't go too cheap because sound quality will degrade but I just don't see the point is spending a lot of money that on something can never sound as good as my $70 CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player (or almost any digital source).
That turntable, if it were on the market today, would be more than $500....

To get a reasonable upgrade you would need to be looking at substantially more expensive turntables (such as over $1k and possibly over $2k)
 

dlaloum

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Thank you all for the input, thus far. Yes, the Sanyo tp 1005 has the auto-return function, but it no longer works. Regarding the mechanics, it's as quiet as can be. No noise or anything, but just simply running slow. Musically speaking, everything sounds about 1/2 step to a whole step down. If the belt doesn't solve the issue, then I think I'll likely shop for a replacement turntable vs. servicing the current one.

I appreciate the recommendations for AT and Rega, which both look great. Also, I've read about U-Turn and Fluance.
It would be worthwhile seeing if you can get this TT back up and running as it should - it is on a par or better than turntables selling today for $500.

It has a good tonearm, and it is a tonearm which is suitable for the currently fashionable mid to low compliance cartridge - so the world is your oyster...

Yes you could go for pretty much any cartridge - as long as you avoid high compliance designs.

As stated by others - the key thing to good performance with a TT (any TT really!) - is positioning it on a vibration absorbing or vibration avoiding platform - any vibration that gets to the TT Plinth will affect the sound.

But remedies for that need not be expensive - although they can take a lot of experimentation
 

dlaloum

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Thank you and I shall heed your words!!

It sounds like me buying a cartridge, like a Ortofon Blue, would possibly result in limited or suboptimal performance, because the tone arm and deck materials on my TT are mediocre, correct? Thus, I would not be getting all the cartridge has to offer, as the cartridge performance is reliant upon the tone arm and deck materials. Am I understanding correctly?

I did find the AT cartridge you recommended here: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-VM95E-Turntable-Headshell-Cartridge/dp/B07JLX1JZ7/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2I27H3LDNQTWN&keywords=AT+VM95E&qid=1666279521&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjEwIiwicXNhIjoiMS42MiIsInFzcCI6IjEuNTgifQ==&sprefix=at%20vm95e,aps,56&sr=8-3&th=1

My current cartridge is: https://www.lpgear.com/product/SANYTP1005.html

Do we believe the AT would be a step-up from the my current cartridge? I would venture that's a yes, but curious about opinions. Lastly, I like the idea of a new head shell to go with the new cartridge, as shown above.
The same cartridge body, with better stylus, was also sold by the much more upmarket brand Grace as the F9 (according to the brain trust on Vinylengine... https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=87366&start=60 )

A stylus such as this one:
or

Would take you straight into TOTL performance territory.

That cartridge body was sold under a plethora of differing brands, with the main difference being the quality of the stylus fitted!

Brands/Models included:

• Used In: FISHER/SANYO MG-10J KENWOOD V-49 SANSUI SV-45 etc.
• Also Found In: AUDIO TECHNICA FISHER KENWOOD MGA ONKYO SANSUI
• ASTATIC NEEDLES N1686
• AUDIO TECHNICA CARTRIDGES AT-952 AT952 AUDIO TECHNICA NEEDLES AT-952 AT952 ATN-952 ATN952
• EVG NEEDLES PM2308D
• FIDELITONE NEEDLES A867
• FISHER MODELS ACS100 ACS105 ACS108 ACS110 ACS116 ACS122 ACS125 105 108 110 1100 122 125 3100 3200 3300 ICS580 MC4561 MT6117
• FISHER NEEDLES 4-156T-0050 4156T0050 4-157T-00500 4157T00500 4-157T-00G01 4157T00G01 ST-10J ST10J ST-43D ST43D
• KENWOOD CARTRIDGES V-49 V49
• KENWOOD NEEDLES N-49 N49
• MGA CARTRIDGES MAG-4 MAG4
• MGA NEEDLES 3D-44M 3D44M
• ONKYO CARTRIDGES OC40 OC-40
• ONKYO NEEDLE DN-40ST
• RECOTON SP964D
• SANSUI NEEDLES SN-45
• SANSUI CARTRIDGES SV-45
• SANSUI MODELS TPB2 TPX2
• SANYO MODELS H20 TP-1005 TP1005 TP-1010 TP1010 TP-30 TP30 TP-B2 TPB2 V30
• SANYO CARTRIDGES MG-10 MG-10J MS-110 MG-43 ST10J ST10J ST11D ST11D ST43 ST43D MG10 MG10J MS110 MG43 SANYO NEEDLES ST-10J ST10J ST-11D ST11D ST-43 ST-43D

You can use this list to search for replacement styli - and you should be able to find everything from basic conical/spherical on aluminium cantilever, to line contact with ruby/sapphire/boron cantilevers....


But as stated earlier - sorting out the platform, and vibration isolation etc, is the key to top flight results.... and spending big bugs on an expensive TT, won't change that. (with the exception of some VERY expensive TT's which incorporate a vibration isolating table into the package.... but those are in the 5 figures+ category)
 

dlaloum

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the vm95en IS the budget cartridge today.
Spectacular performance for the price.
Yes the VM95 is a great cartridge.... after all Clearaudio, fits it with a wooden surround and a better stylus and resells it for well over $1000 !! (Clearaudio Maestro)
 

mike70

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I never seen any TT more bulletproof than a Technics direct drive.
My SL-Q2 have more than 40 years with me only with 2 drops of oil in the spindle every 4-5 years ... with the strobe always correct. And what I saw with the 1200s models is incredible (rain, hot, hits, ...)

Reliability is justly one of the strongest point in Technics, not say it by me, by the market itself.
 

Chrispy

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Sincere thanks- This is solid advice. I think as a music lover, I primarily listen to lossless audio files, through a great DAC (RME ADI-2), and a great headphone amp (Linear Tube Audio MZ3). Since my tube headphone amp has three inputs, I decided to hook up my Sanyo turntable and re-discover my small collection of vinyl (about 200 LPs). Despite obvious artifacts associated with vinyl, I find it really enjoyable and of course, nostalgic.

The current TT is indeed sorted out and I'm thrilled that I'm getting a perfect 33.3 RPM with a new belt and some fine tuning calibration, per the 1980 service manual. Perhaps there could be a slight/marginal bump in quality with the ATVM95E cartridge & head shell combo, but I will absolutely heed the great advice from all here and note that there is a "ceiling" for what can be done and further purchases to upgrade are not going to provide tonal benefit.

Perhaps I should ask what is recommended for a replacement TT, so I can research and save accordingly. I remember researching the U-Turn Orbit Special, Music Hall Classic, and Fluance RT85, but read that even these are not great because of (reportedly) cheap build quality and unacceptable W/F readings. I guess I need to look at a higher price point?
Curious, if the current tt works fine and is accurate just what do you expect with a change? Maybe a different cartridge, but not so much to be gained with a simple change in tt unless something's particularly off with the current one.
 

Bob from Florida

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Curious, if the current tt works fine and is accurate just what do you expect with a change? Maybe a different cartridge, but not so much to be gained with a simple change in tt unless something's particularly off with the current one.
Why does anyone change anything that currently works well in this hobby? The answer has more to do with "wants" than "needs" I think. Choosing is part of the adventure.
 
OP
Strumbringer

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Curious, if the current tt works fine and is accurate just what do you expect with a change? Maybe a different cartridge, but not so much to be gained with a simple change in tt unless something's particularly off with the current one.
What I am hoping to change is a desired improvement in treble frequencies. According to my ears and the digital display below, when I play my vinyl, I tend to get decent response in the lows and midrange, but not much in the treble. The result is somewhat of a bass-centric listening experience. I hope a better cartridge/stylus would help to even this out.

W2rCgpe.jpg
 

dlaloum

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One of the most common issues that causes depressed high end, is too much capacitance...

MM cartridges are designed for a certain amount of capacitance - typically between 200pf and 400pf.

However this is TOTAL capacitance - which includes all the cabling, from cartridge through to the phono stage input, in addition to the load built into the phono stage.

Typical Audio Technica cartridges like around 100pf for optimal performance, Shures are often happiest with 400pf - but there are no hard/fast rules.

First thing to check, is how much capacitance is in your phono stage. (some post vinyl era receivers, have been known to have 1000pf onboard!!!! - which makes it impossible to properly run a MM )
Second is the interconnect from TT to phono stage - some "audiophile" interconnects have over 500pf in that cable alone!!! (most of the original 1980's TT cables had less than 100pf).

the performance of your cartridge above 1kHz is dramatically impacted by the cartridge loading (both resistive, and capacitive).

Changing cartridge, changing stylus, will also require (in most cases) changing loading, to get optimum results
 

Bob from Florida

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What I am hoping to change is a desired improvement in treble frequencies. According to my ears and the digital display below, when I play my vinyl, I tend to get decent response in the lows and midrange, but not much in the treble. The result is somewhat of a bass-centric listening experience. I hope a better cartridge/stylus would help to even this out.

W2rCgpe.jpg
What does the above bar graph represent? At first glance it looks like an equalizer.
 
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Strumbringer

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What does the above bar graph represent? At first glance it looks like an equalizer.
When in the phono input, the frequencies being received from the TT are displayed. The receiver's eq and treble/bass controls are disabled and the signal is going from the TT into the phono stage and then directly to the line out. So the image is showing a good amount of bass and midrange, but little treble while the album is being played.
 

Bob from Florida

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When in the phono input, the frequencies being received from the TT are displayed. The receiver's eq and treble/bass controls are disabled and the signal is going from the TT into the phono stage and then directly to the line out. So the image is showing a good amount of bass and midrange, but little treble while the album is being played.
Understood. What is playing on the turntable for that display? A pink noise track on a test record would give you something to evaluate.
 

mike70

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When in the phono input, the frequencies being received from the TT are displayed. The receiver's eq and treble/bass controls are disabled and the signal is going from the TT into the phono stage and then directly to the line out. So the image is showing a good amount of bass and midrange, but little treble while the album is being played.

if you´re using a conical stylus ... is pretty standard.
Advanced stylus profiles get higher frequencies, but also they need more care in the setup process (tonearm height, azimuth, etc.) There´s no free lunch in audio :)
 
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