Why do people associate High End audio with snake-oil?

[Sal1950]

BUT, for all that people have a right to spend their own money as they like and if people want to spend a lot on high end gear then that is entirely their right and if they enjoy it then who am I to criticise.

True, but the big picture is the totally off the tracks media that promote the snake oil marketers. Do you think high end would be what it is today if we didn't have Stereophile, TAS and all the websites discussing the "thousand veils lifted" by $5k power cords.
Get A Rope.

 

[svart-hvitt]

True, but the big picture is the totally off the tracks media that promote the snake oil marketers. Do you think high end would be what it is today if we didn't have Stereophile, TAS and all the websites discussing the "thousand veils lifted" by $5k power cords.
Get A Rope.

I agree but think websites infiltrated by the industry - using the internet as a new channel, in addition to the magazines - are growing in importance.

 

[JJB70]

True, but the big picture is the totally off the tracks media that promote the snake oil marketers. Do you think high end would be what it is today if we didn't have Stereophile, TAS and all the websites discussing the "thousand veils lifted" by $5k power cords.
Get A Rope.

I think we know the answer to that, which is why I see those magazines and their acolytes as the real bad hats. A manufacturer selling hideously over priced snake oil is not very edifying but if people buy their wares I really can't blame them, magazines selling their souls and acting as marketing people for snake oil and all the associated subjectivist nonsense they spin is truly reprehensible.

 

[SIY]

There's nothing wrong with being a "subjectivist," at least as I understand the term. The issue to me is the lack of control and verification, i.e., irrationalism. Do you think that magic sticker is changing the sound based on what you think you hear? That's a subjective judgement. Try it again with a double blind randomized placebo or with the sticker present/absent (again double blind and randomized). Do you still hear it? That's a subjective judgement as well, but rational subjectivism.

 

[JJB70]

Listening to music is inherently a subjective experience, we form an emotional connection with music and the music that moves us is very personal. So for sure I have no issue with subjectivism when it is recognized as such. I also have no issue with people playing with EQ to get a sound they like. However, when subjective language is used by reviewers and magazines in isolation in order to persuade people to spend a lot more money than they need to and when measured values are either ignored or downplayed then I think it is just plain wrong. As a minimum I'd expect these claims to be supported by ABX testing, if a reviewer offered a load of florid language about pace, rhythm etc and pointed to ABX tests supporting their opinions then whether I agreed with their preferences or not I'd at least take them seriously.

 

[SIY]

Why ABX in particular? Wouldn't any other double blind level-matched protocol be acceptable to you?

 

[JJB70]

Why ABX in particular? Wouldn't any other double blind level-matched protocol be acceptable to you?

Yes, any double blind would be fine, I just use ABX as that's the one I'm most familiar with. However any methodology based on a double blind principle would be fine.

 

[Sal1950]

Yes, any double blind would be fine

What I really find amazing is the stories and excuses the "trust your ears only" crowd will come up with to justify the fact that they will avoid any sort of bias controlled blind listening tests like the plague. Like they're terrified that if their little bubble of delusion was to burst the sky would fall in.

 

[Wombat]

A bit more on the topic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/snake-oil-salesmen-knew-something/

 

[Dialectic]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kalista-dreamplay-one-cd-player

$43K and not as good or as versatile as a Topping DAC, but when you change the disc out, you can pretend that you're Mr. Spock saving the Enterprise.

 

[Wombat]

No SACD, DVD-A capability it seems. Will CD owners pay that much?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Why ABX in particular? Wouldn't any other double blind level-matched protocol be acceptable to you?

Double blind is an important baseline but the rest of the test design is important too, wouldn’t you agree?

This has been discussed at length on other threads here...

 

[RayDunzl]

not as good or as versatile as a Topping DAC

Maybe you need the Deluxe version:

 

[cjfrbw]

Di-lithium isn't cheap. Makes your stereo sound like the Enterprise Holo-deck.

 

[Ardacer]

Maybe you need the Deluxe version:

View attachment 14916

BOOOOY WOULD I LIKE TO OWN ONE OF THESE....

so I could sell it instantly

 

[Sal1950]

BOOOOY WOULD I LIKE TO OWN ONE OF THESE....

so I could sell it instantly

Sure is purdy. I'd love to have it in my shrine.
As long as it was donated.

 

[DonH56]

Sure is purdy. I'd love to have it in my shrine.
As long as it was donated.

You'd put something like that in your bathroom?

 

[JJB70]

I saw a shop selling one of these this week:

https://nordost.com/qrt/qk1-ac-enhancer.php

Does anybody genuinely take this stuff seriously? I mean I'm convinced magazines buy into it for purely commercial reasons to inflate the whole bubble of tom foolery that surrounds audio. Shops sell it because if people want to buy the stuff then why wouldn't you take their money. For most buyers it's probably all just part of the cult like ethos of that part of the hobby. Yet clearly there is money to be made from selling illusions and snake oil like this.

 

[watchnerd]

Or promote the idea of a flawed digital system and a superior obsolete analog LP as the SOTA in reproduction in this Our Lords Year of 2018. Etc, Etc, Etc.
People are believers in all sort of things, but it doesn't usually happen in a vacuum. In this case it is a media built in support of commerce.

As someone who enjoys vinyl (but think its objectively inferior to digital), I find the idea of $100,000 turntables incredibly ironic....no matter how electromechanically impressive the engineering may be, the medium itself is still flawed.

And equally paradoxically, if one finds the euphonic distortions of LP to be enjoyable....well, you can get plenty of euphonic distortion in a cheap turntable.

 

[watchnerd]

I saw a shop selling one of these this week:

https://nordost.com/qrt/qk1-ac-enhancer.php

Does anybody genuinely take this stuff seriously? I mean I'm convinced magazines buy into it for purely commercial reasons to inflate the whole bubble of tom foolery that surrounds audio. Shops sell it because if people want to buy the stuff then why wouldn't you take their money. For most buyers it's probably all just part of the cult like ethos of that part of the hobby. Yet clearly there is money to be made from selling illusions and snake oil like this.

WTF does it actually do?

What is a "a passive electronic field"?

Sounds like an oxymoron....