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Audiophile hobby is a scam?

DLS79

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In that case, how do you decide what to buy? You have to take someone's word for it. That is still rational, but it leads to results that (with the knowledge we have) seem wildly irrational.

Maybe it's the way i was raised, but to me that's not rational!

If i see the going rate for something is like $50 (multiple brands & multiple retailers), and then I see claims about an equivalent item that cost 10 or 20 times more being superior my BS alarm starts going off, specially when no meaningful proof is provided.


Edit: I'm the same way when i see claims that something significantly cheaper than the going rate is just as good.
 

kemmler3D

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Maybe it's the way i was raised, but to me that's not rational!
Well, you're operating with the knowledge you have too, others just weren't so lucky to be raised the way you were! :)

my BS alarm starts going off, specially when no meaningful proof is provided.
I don't think you have to look very far in any sphere of human existence to see that a lot of people were in the restroom when BS detectors got handed out. ;

I'm the same way when i see claims that something significantly cheaper than the going rate is just as good.
For some people, this feeling is why ASR as a whole seems like a sham. Amir's reviews tells them a Fosi Monoblock will sound just as good as a $10K Class A monster with most speakers. If you don't understand or have confidence in measurements... and you have BS detector... it's probably going off at that point.

The definition of rationality I'm using is basically the one they teach you in economics - "People are always rational... more or less" but you have to remember that this is subject to the information they have and their understanding of said information. Obviously a person's knowledge and understanding are often far short of what's necessary to make a decision that everyone would agree is rational.
 
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DLS79

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The definition of rationality I'm using is basically the one they teach you in economics - "People are always rational... more or less" but you have to remember that this is subject to the information they have and their understanding of said information. Obviously a person's knowledge and understanding are often far short of what's necessary to make a decision that everyone would agree is rational.

That's how I was raised different, I was always pushed to learn more, and want to learn more.

my wife always says I'm an abyss of unless knowledge. I always tell her the usefulness of the knowledge is a matter of opinion!
 

ads_cft222

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Grimm ls1be and Dutch & Dutch 8c do not come cheap....
 
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David James

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You just don't get it :) It's for people fascinated by science – "science" like in "science fiction". They don't want to actually "learn science", it would take away the "magic".
Totally off topic from OP, but I heard some parents say to their young child (maybe kindergarten age) in front of some uncanny demonstration in a museum “it’s science” as though the diety named science was looking down and bestowing wondrous miracles. For many people science and religion are just different sides of the coin.
 
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David James

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Only for religious people ;)
Yes. Lol. I thought that was given at audio science review.
I was commenting on the mystification of science amongst the general public which might be a partial explanation for the energy behind the remarks of so many people who come here to take issue with what people do on this site.
 

lashto

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I at least appreciate your commitment to semantics and pedantry. :)
what would science be without pedantry ? :)
I guess for you, "solved" or "perfect" represent infinitely perfected performance, and so those terms should actually never be used. A valid point of view. I don't totally disagree but I think it makes discussion a little trickier than it needs to be.
It surely does. "Perfect" is not supposed to be easy. Many say it does not even exist.
The pragmatic point of view is that for any physical electronic audio circuit,
Pragmatic points of view are for engineers. Totally agree with you and with them too. But their products are pragmatic compromises, nothing to do with "perfect".
noise and distortion can never be zero... at least outside of a lab or a giant void in deep space at ~0K. Quantum mechanics makes such a device physically impossible, among other things.
So at that point you have to wonder if there can be a more useful / relevant definition of "perfect". I think the one most people use here is the one I mentioned earlier... an audio device that has no plausibly audible defect when used for its intended purpose.

Granted, a much weaker definition, but one that gives us permission to stop worrying about irrelevant improvements. For example, bumping amp SINAD from 95 to 105 to 115dB will basically never improve the listening experience.

I do think that considering the idea of "perfection" when it comes to speakers is interesting, though. It forces us to wrangle with what a perfect mix / recording might capture, and how one might reproduce that at home. And, thinking along those lines does make it clear that although stereo can be very nice and is very practical, it's far from any concept of "ultimate perfection" we might care to discuss.
Noise indeed cannot be zero (at least that's what our current knowledge of physics says). So perfect is not possible .. and that's just fine.

For HD, a kind of practical zero may be "fully burried under noise". Or it may be something like this. Or something else. Truth is, we do not even know the definition of (practically) perfect HD.

And that x500 amp is just another engineering compromise, same as any other product anywhere. IIRC, even purifi had some statements about its HD rising with frequency and called that issue a technical compromise. They did not say "amplification was done" and did not go into vacation afterwards.

Long (nagging) story short: serious scientists & engineers should not even talk about "perfect". And consumers should not talk about perfect amps either. The only 'benefit' of such cheerleading/fanboyism are higher prices.
 

lashto

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That's how I was raised different, I was always pushed to learn more, and want to learn more.

my wife always says I'm an abyss of unless knowledge. I always tell her the usefulness of the knowledge is a matter of opinion!
Also got one of those sacks-of-useless and I tell everyone that it's knowledge for the sake of it .. works fine but it's surely not the best way to be popular and make friends :)
 
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