Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[Roland68]

Since the beginning of January. I ordered it on 30th Nov, but the shipment to the UK was delayed.

That's exactly what I mean. You got a recently released WiiM Amp with Revision 4, and a few days or weeks later there is already Revision 5? Hardware revision 4 or 5 should come in years rather than weeks.
In the past, devices were developed and tested as far as possible. Especially when large quantities are planned, these devices were tested extensively and beta tests were also carried out with real testers.
Today things are different for most manufacturers.
Errors will be corrected after delivery with firmware (as far as possible) or with a new revision, which is doubly disadvantageous for buyers of the previous revisions. The manufacturer uses the regular buyers as beta testers and investors for the development of its devices without any benefit or advantage for these buyers. If these buyers then want a version with the new functions and fixed errors/problems, they have to buy a new device.
But this is now so common that it is normal for most people. In the past, such manufacturers would have been hanged.

But this is about the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62, and my opinion is to use a dedicated amplifier anyway. In my personal opinion, and over 30 years of experience, I am not a fan of all-in-one devices, even if I understand the appeal of them.
But that's just my personal opinion and of course no one else has to share it.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I think the Wiim amp is good enough to get started with saving some money that could be put into speakers.

My plan is to eventually upgrade to a Wiim Ultra (probably not Rev1, lol) and a high quality power amp. The Wiim amp will then go into a second room.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

That's exactly what I mean. You got a recently released WiiM Amp with Revision 4, and a few days or weeks later there is already Revision 5? Hardware revision 4 or 5 should come in years rather than weeks.
In the past, devices were developed and tested as far as possible. Especially when large quantities are planned, these devices were tested extensively and beta tests were also carried out with real testers.
Today things are different for most manufacturers.
Errors will be corrected after delivery with firmware (as far as possible) or with a new revision, which is doubly disadvantageous for buyers of the previous revisions. The manufacturer uses the regular buyers as beta testers and investors for the development of its devices without any benefit or advantage for these buyers. If these buyers then want a version with the new functions and fixed errors/problems, they have to buy a new device.
But this is now so common that it is normal for most people. In the past, such manufacturers would have been hanged.

But this is about the Elac Debut Reference DBR-62, and my opinion is to use a dedicated amplifier anyway. In my personal opinion, and over 30 years of experience, I am not a fan of all-in-one devices, even if I understand the appeal of them.
But that's just my personal opinion and of course no one else has to share it.

And this huge problem goes hand in hand with the vast use of the "pre-order" model IMO. -Rewarding companies before they have delivered on their promise can and will come back to bite you eventually.

/Off topic

 

[Matt_Holland]

And this huge problem goes hand in hand with the vast use of the "pre-order" model IMO. -Rewarding companies before they have delivered on their promise can and will come back to bite you eventually.

/Off topic

This is such a storm in a teacup. Wiim have not failed to deliver something they have promised.

Like any manufacturer they reserve the right to change the specs of their product (usually to improve it).

Some Wiim amps had a power supply hum and Wiim will replace these no questions asked. I suspect that had a few units not had a slightly louder noise than others then most people would have not even noticed any minor humming. This does not make the product faulty.

I think Wiim’s approach is modern and refreshing. I’ve owned mine for only a few weeks and already its features have been improved with new firmware.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

This is such a storm in a teacup. Wiim have not failed to deliver something they have promised.

Like any manufacturer they reserve the right to change the specs of their product (usually to improve it).

Some Wiim amps had a power supply hum and Wiim will replace these no questions asked. I suspect that had a few units not had a slightly louder noise than others then most people would have not even noticed any minor humming. This does not make the product faulty.

I think Wiim’s approach is modern and refreshing. I’ve owned mine for only a few weeks and already its features have been improved with new firmware.

Modern and refreshing = Using customers as beta testing fodder?

 

[ninetylol]

Modern and refreshing = Using customers as beta testing fodder?

company caring to improve their products and getting new features out for free = bad

I see you never used a WiiM product.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Modern and refreshing = Using customers as beta testing fodder?

Wiim can’t win. They are about as transparent as a company can be and invite feedback on an open forum in order to improve their products. If they didn’t do this then the general public impression would be that no problems exist with their products, except genuine faulty units that you would expect to happen with any manufacturer. The perception of the Amp being beta tested on users is simply because the hum issue snowballed on the forums and everyone suddenly had their ears pressed up to the casework looking for it. All the other improvements were made with amazing speed only because of the power of the ticket system and forum feedback.

But most importantly it’s your money and your choice. So if you’re not comfortable with what’s going on then don’t buy.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Wiim can’t win. They are about as transparent as a company can be and invite feedback on an open forum in order to improve their products. If they didn’t do this then the general public impression would be that no problems exist with their products, except genuine faulty units that you would expect to happen with any manufacturer. The perception of the Amp being beta tested on users is simply because the hum issue snowballed on the forums and everyone suddenly had their ears pressed up to the casework looking for it. All the other improvements were made with amazing speed only because of the power of the ticket system and forum feedback.

But most importantly it’s your money and your choice. So if you’re not comfortable with what’s going on then don’t buy.

I won't buy. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on the practice they carry out.

A company can be transparant about their fixes as much as they like but it doesn't change the fact that they could've revealed and remedied those fixes with internal QA / QC before shipping the product. They chose to sell if without to save money. Turning customers into QC and spinning this on their forum by inviting buyers to give feedback.

So yes. Wiim can win. -They are already winning by maximising their profit and making people feel important by listening to what they uncover in their product testing they should've done themselves.

 

[goldark]

Has anyone heard the tower version of this bookshelf, the DFR52? Can we assume it measures similarly well?

 

[Roland68]

Has anyone heard the tower version of this bookshelf, the DFR52? Can we assume it measures similarly well?

The floorstanding speaker is from the same series, but it is not the large version of the DBR62.
The DFR52 only has 13cm midrange and bass, in contrast to the 180mm on the DBR62. The housing dimensions of the DFR52 are also smaller (width/depth).
The only thing they have in common is the tweeter.

 

[Doenerkunde]

Has anyone heard the tower version of this bookshelf, the DFR52? Can we assume it measures similarly well?

While we don´t have a spinorama of the DFR52, there are measurements of both the DFR52 and DBR62 by german magazine Stereo that show differences in tonality between them:

ElacDBR62:

Elac DFR52:

The 700hz dip and comparatively brighter slope of the DFR52 also shows up in other measurements:
https://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/hifi/elac-debut-reference-dfr52/seite-5.html
https://audiovision.de/elac-debut-reference-set-test/

Overlay by Audiovision, DFR52 in red, DBR62 in green:

 

[tw 2022]

While we don´t have a spinorama of the DFR52, there are measurements of both the DFR52 and DBR62 by german magazine Stereo that show differences in tonality between them:

ElacDBR62:
View attachment 344298

Elac DFR52:
View attachment 344299

The 700hz dip and comparatively brighter slope of the DFR52 also shows up in other measurements:
https://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/hifi/elac-debut-reference-dfr52/seite-5.html
https://audiovision.de/elac-debut-reference-set-test/

Overlay by Audiovision, DFR52 in red, DBR62 in green:
View attachment 344302

certainly some midrange differences...

 

[ninetylol]

Anyone plugged the ports of these. Might help to get rid of the resonances. I might do some measurements tonight.

 

[Willem]

I am not sure what resonances you are referring to, but my hunch is they are room modes, and thus demand dsp room eq.

 

[ninetylol]

I am not sure what resonances you are referring to, but my hunch is they are room modes, and thus demand dsp room eq.

I got two at about 500hz and 850hz. You can see those in the measurements too.

At the moment im using EQ to tame them.

 

[wyup]

I got two at about 500hz and 850hz. You can see those in the measurements too.

At the moment im using EQ to tame them.

I'm considering padding my DBR62 with to improve resonances. I've thought of covering the internal walls with adhesive bitumen layer and stuffing cloth to improve that. I carried them to a dealer for an audition and I was told that they percieved some 'boxy' resonance sound. Another user put damping cloth aswell as he shared here some time ago:

Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

How do these speakers scale with higher quality amplification and/or more power ?. Is there a relatively low point of diminishing returns ?

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Willem]

Just don't

 

[wyup]

Just don't

Why not? Isn't there a chance that the manufacturer didn't put damping inside for cost saving reasons and that some reported resonances come from the inside?

 

[Willem]

These are excellent speakers as they are, and I don't think any amateur has the skills and the resources to do something like this.

 

[ZolaIII]

Ufff, crossover them at 120 Hz each chenel per it's own sub, plug the port's and that's it. You deal with first one in the cabinet and it's fundamentals also fade.
Most of the time and cost got into optimising enclosure and Andrew did a great job (especially for the budget he had for creating those).