Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements

[amirm]

@amirm: Any more measurements, observations, or conclusions forthcoming from the unit you are scrutinizing?

Not really. The data has been so conclusive that I was thinking about wrapping it up and returning it. I do have an $800 new toy , that measures current with a pen. If I were more motivated, I was going to measure with that but I don't think it is worth the effort.

 

[RayDunzl]

I do have an $800 new toy , that measures current with a pen.

Ok, let's see it...

 

[amirm]

This is what it looks like:

It is an ultra-small induction coil that is able to measure current going down tiny pc board traces. It was invented in one of the UK universities: http://www.tti-test.com/go/iprober/

 

[Speedskater]

If you do measure current into a magic box, Georg Ohm and Gustav Kirchhoff would be surprised.

Oops! I forgot to make that a one terminal magic box.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Sorry gents I don't visit often so I only just saw this.
A friend of mine, years ago, did a series of experiments to see if he could find what each of the shortcomings of a record player contributed to their sound. In the case of noise he found that adding noise gave the impression of greater stereo depth. If the noise was signal correlated the effect was more pronounced.
I have speculated elsewhere that the Entreq box looks like an aerial to me, and if it picks up some music correlated noise from surrounding interconnects and speaker cables this may well alter the sound and it may well sound nicer.
There are some well regarded cables which appear to have a bit of aerial attached to them too.

One thing it isn't, as many others have noted, is an earth, and it was always more likely to add noise than reduce it.

 

[amirm]

The amount of noise injected using an antenna (as seen in measurements) is much, much lower in level than music signals. So I don't think it has any beneficial effects even though as you rightly say, with LP it is taught to be so. There, the noise is clearly audible.

 

[Thomas savage]

If it's not taking anything away, draining low voltage low current .. It must be adding something, or doing nothing...

Guys love them, really they go bat crazy over these things. It's embarrassing reading the posts over at WBF, it's like a self help group gone wrong.. They are all enabling each other!

It kind of makes me cringe tbh.

I would like to sneak into their homes and disconnect the devices, though leaving the boxes in place... Maybe the box picks up something without being connected who knows

I had grounding boxes like those entreq ones but never noticed any change, I disconnected them after amir measured the devices but still non the wiser. They seem to do nothing.

 

[TBone]

Sorry gents I don't visit often so I only just saw this.
A friend of mine, years ago, did a series of experiments to see if he could find what each of the shortcomings of a record player contributed to their sound. In the case of noise he found that adding noise gave the impression of greater stereo depth. If the noise was signal correlated the effect was more pronounced.

Welcome Frank, that is interesting, and perhaps true ... but I can safely state that in my many travels, I've refined my analog front end in very much the opposite approach, taking great measures to minimize all existing noise (and all turntables have -some- internal noise), hence achieving the kind of noise floor / and sound quality per my expectations - especially when discussing/auditioning higher-grade analog performance.

 

[Speedskater]

The amount of noise injected using an antenna (as seen in measurements) is much, much lower in level than music signals. So I don't think it has any beneficial effects even though as you rightly say, with LP it is taught to be so. There, the noise is clearly audible.

The interference noise level would be situation specific. Nearby appliances or hi tech lighting, other hi-fi components, other entertainment or communication devices and even cable length & dress/placement could have an effect on the situation. Even the act of attaching test equipment might have a positive or negative impact.

 

[TBone]

I had grounding boxes like those entreq ones but never noticed any change, I disconnected them after amir measured the devices but still non the wiser. They seem to do nothing.

waiting for someone to tell you ... "your systems not resolving enough".

had a btch of a time keeping very faint, but heard (headphones), radio stations out my phono-stage at this current local, rfi can be a problem here, a few years ago at TAVES many vinyl setups had the same issue, why anyone with such problems would consider adding another antenna to the mix is ...

 

[Don Hills]

I used to have RFI problems too. I had to put ferrite rod chokes on all of my interconnects and speaker cables. I lived under an AM broadcast station antenna. As in, literally - one day the (inverted L) antenna wire broke at the insulator and fell across the house. Because the full length of wire was still attached, the transmitter didn't trip out. I heard the clatter on the roof and went outside to find the wire draped along the ground beside the house, with the RF arcing to the grass and setting fire to it.

 

[amirm]

I used to have RFI problems too. I had to put ferrite rod chokes on all of my interconnects and speaker cables. I lived under an AM broadcast station antenna. As in, literally - one day the (inverted L) antenna wire broke at the insulator and fell across the house. Because the full length of wire was still attached, the transmitter didn't trip out. I heard the clatter on the roof and went outside to find the wire draped along the ground beside the house, with the RF arcing to the grass and setting fire to it.

Wow, that must have been some sight!

Somehow it reminds of me of one winter day that was snowing when I was 8 to 10 years old. We lived in a house that was next to a theater with a massive wall that overlooked our yard. I look at the window and see the entire roof of the theater on fire and in different places on the wall! It had lit up our entire yard, turning snow into glowing red. It was a true inferno. We ran out barefoot, with little clothing to street. Firefighters came and put it out sometime late in the evening. They actually let us back into our house but I was terrified to go to sleep all night.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I used to have RFI problems too. I had to put ferrite rod chokes on all of my interconnects and speaker cables. I lived under an AM broadcast station antenna. As in, literally - one day the (inverted L) antenna wire broke at the insulator and fell across the house. Because the full length of wire was still attached, the transmitter didn't trip out. I heard the clatter on the roof and went outside to find the wire draped along the ground beside the house, with the RF arcing to the grass and setting fire to it.

Yeah, but the really important question to audiophiles, commotion, fires, etc. aside, was how did it sound?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Welcome Frank, that is interesting, and perhaps true ... but I can safely state that in my many travels, I've refined my analog front end in very much the opposite approach, taking great measures to minimize all existing noise (and all turntables have -some- internal noise), hence achieving the kind of noise floor / and sound quality per my expectations - especially when discussing/auditioning higher-grade analog performance.

Yes. Record players are the only part of a hifi system where I have working expertise. I too have always tried to minimise noise, but a record player noise, even if sota can never be anywhere near CD for fundamental reasons. It can, however, be low enough for it to be on no consequence on pop music and of little consequence on most classical music too.

 

[Don Hills]

Yeah, but the really important question to audiophiles, commotion, fires, etc. aside, was how did it sound?

Not bad. It had no Optimod compressor. Of course, it was mono and had a limited bandwidth. But it was an all-tube transmitter.

 

[Sal1950]

BANNED AT WBF! LOL
Thought I'd check in at WBF to see if there was anything of interest going on, hadn't been there in a week or two.
To my surprise I got a popup that my account had been permanently banned with no reason given. Only reason I can
remember is making a few complaints to Steve for telling Amir to take his Entreq measurements and hit the road with them.
I asked for what reason is there a "Measurement" forum if measurements aren't allowed to be posted? Guess he didn't like that.
Oh Lord, what am I to do now, my reputation in the audiophile community is ruined.
BO HO, BO HO, BO HO.

 

[Purité Audio]

Surely being banned from 'what's a brain' can only enhance your reputation?
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

BANNED AT WBF! LOL
Thought I'd check in at WBF to see if there was anything of interest going on, hadn't been there in a week or two.
To my surprise I got a popup that my account had been permanently banned with no reason given. Only reason I can
remember is making a few complaints to Steve for telling Amir to take his Entreq measurements and hit the road with them.
I asked for what reason is there a "Measurement" forum if measurements aren't allowed to be posted? Guess he didn't like that.
Oh Lord, what am I to do now, my reputation in the audiophile community is ruined.
BO HO, BO HO, BO HO.

Hey I was banned for no reason and had 1000 posts deleted

TOO DAM SEXY that's our problem... Those guys get emasculated easy I guess

 

[dallasjustice]

WTF, I haven't been banned yet! I'm feeling left out.

 

[Purité Audio]

That would be like kicking a cocker spaniel!
Keith.