MQA now live on Tidal

[astr0b0y]

I'm 18000kms from home and don't have access to a Tidal desktop client, or Roon, so I can't have a play.
Anyone had a listen yet? Any first impressions?

 

[Deleted member 65]

Maybe we should have a dedicated MQA thread?

Initially I was very sceptic vs MQA since it seemed as a DRM in disguise. However I don't have enough technical or Meridian agreement demands to have a firm opinion.

Rumour (what should I call it?) is that to be able to have a MQA license Meridian requires the application company/designer to summit detailed DAC schematics to Meridian. Hmm, is that something MSB, Benchmark or dCS would do?

 

[RayDunzl]

Hmm, is that something MSB, Benchmark or dCS would do?

I don't think Benchmark will do MQA, at least not without a change of stance...

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa

 

[RayDunzl]

I'm 18000kms from home and don't have access to a Tidal desktop client, or Roon, so I can't have a play.

Where will you decode it when you get home?

Is it decoded in the players, or does it require a compatible DAC/hardware?

There is this: http://tidal.com/us/mastersfaq

I still have the question.

 

[astr0b0y]

Seems to have both software and hardware decoding available as of the announcement. I think the Tidal native desktop apps have software decoding enabled and Roon and Audirvana have announced they will also have software decoding available soon.
So I wonder how much I can mess with bits until it it all sounds amazing/shite?
Tidal mqa -> HQP -> DAC -> Dirac box....

 

[watchnerd]

Listening to "Masters" stuff now through my cans at work (AKG K271 Studio) and the desktop client.

I haven't done any A/B comparisons yet, but so far I'm not noticing some kind of "OMG" quality level difference.

Sounds like good Redbook lossless to me.

 

[Sal1950]

Initially I was very sceptic vs MQA since it seemed as a DRM in disguise

It is DRM in not so good a disguise.
Now that Tidal is opening the MQA streams, the non-MQA CD rate stream are gone.
So you pay $ into the MQA monster to get the hirez stream or you listen to the un-decoded lossy stream.
If they have there way and MQA becomes the defacto standard they will have cut us off of true CD quality sound unless you buy into the MQA taxes in some manner.
I call the DRM

 

[watchnerd]

It is DRM in not so good a disguise.
Now that Tidal is opening the MQA streams, the non-MQA CD rate stream are gone.
So you pay $ into the MQA monster to get the hirez stream or you listen to the un-decoded lossy stream.
If they have there way and MQA becomes the defacto standard they will have cut us off of true CD quality sound unless you buy into the MQA taxes in some manner.
I call the DRM

Even all of that might actually be forgivable if it actually represented a significant leap forward in quality on par with what we got when CD first came out.

But it isn't. Sounds like regular, good quality lossless 16bit PCM.

 

[Ken Newton]

Even all of that might actually be forgivable if it actually represented a significant leap forward in quality on par with what we got when CD first came out.

But it isn't. Sounds like regular, good quality lossless 16bit PCM.

I'm curious as to whether your assessment of MQA sound was via a non-MQA decoding DAC, or was it via an MQA decoding DAC? As I understand it, MQA software decoders, such as utilized by Tidal, cannot implement the MQA playback interpolation filter. That would require reprogramming of the interpolation filter within the DAC. Which would then mean that Tidal MQA only enables part of the sound character intended to be delivered by MQA.

BTW, I haven't yet auditioned MQA, and so, have not yet formed an subjective opinion.

 

[watchnerd]

s I understand it, MQA software decoders, such as utilized by Tidal, cannot implement the MQA playback interpolation filter. That would require reprogramming of the interpolation filter within the DAC. Which would then mean that Tidal MQA only enables part of the sound character intended to be delivered by MQA.

If what you said about software decoders lacking the interpolation filter is correct, saying it "only enables part of the sound" is a huge understatement. Without the ability to use the other half of the unfolding, the discarded data will not be restored at playback.

 

[Thomas savage]

Is it not just limited to 24/96 via software decoding ?

If so who cares ??

 

[watchnerd]

Is it not just limited to 24/96 via software decoding ?

If so who cares ??

You should care because of potential impact on the entire business model of the music industry / music streamers, even if high resolution content is of no interest to you.

Here is what one of the producers for Linn records had to say about his concerns about MQA leading to vendor lock-in:

"MQA is Bad for Music"

 

[Thomas savage]

You should care because of potential impact on the entire business model of the music industry / music streamers, even if high resolution content is of no interest to you.

Here is what one of the producers for Linn records had to say about his concerns about MQA leading to vendor lock-in:

"MQA is Bad for Music"

Not fussed.. Listening to kyuss right now so nothing else matters

 

[watchnerd]

Not fussed.. Listening to kyuss right now so nothing else matters

I hope you got those Cerwin Vegas.

 

[Thomas savage]

I hope you got those Cerwin Vegas.

Nah, the vivids chomp through that OK.. Even at high SPL..

Back to mqa and tidal .. It's bedfellows that need each other but likely both will end up irrelevant imo

 

[Ken Newton]

If what you said about software decoders lacking the interpolation filter is correct, saying it "only enables part of the sound" is a huge understatement. Without the ability to use the other half of the unfolding, the discarded data will not be restored at playback.

The missing part I was referring to does not discard any data. It's simply the playback interpolation filter response. MQA ideally utilizes an specific non-ringing filter function for both anti-alias at recording/remastering, and anti-image at playback. The recording/remastering end of the system chain can be controlled by the production company to utilize the specified filter, but that is not the case at the playback end. Most non-MQA DACs have one or a few filter functions programmed in them, which are most often fixed and not reprogrammable.

What should move an non-MQA DAC closer to the sound of fully decoded MQA, however, is to select the non-MQA DAC's soft slope digital filter option (if it has one) when playing software decoded MQA streams, such as via Tidal.

 

[oivavoi]

Archimago has a new post today, about MQA at Tidal: http://archimago.blogspot.no/2017/01/comparison-tidal-mqa-music-high.html
Good stuff as usual.

 

[RayDunzl]

If what you said about software decoders lacking the interpolation filter is correct, saying it "only enables part of the sound" is a huge understatement. Without the ability to use the other half of the unfolding, the discarded data will not be restored at playback.

Discarded?

I thought it was played back as low-level noise if not decoded MQA-style..

 

[Thomas savage]

The missing part I was referring to does not discard any data. It's simply the playback interpolation filter response. MQA ideally utilizes an specific non-ringing filter function for both anti-alias at recording/remastering, and anti-image at playback. The recording/remastering end of the system chain can be controlled by the production company to utilize the specified filter, but that is not the case at the playback end. Most non-MQA DACs have one or a few filter functions programmed in them, which are most often fixed and not reprogrammable.

What should move an non-MQA DAC closer to the sound of fully decoded MQA, however, is to select the non-MQA DAC's soft slope digital filter option (if it has one) when playing software decoded MQA streams, such as via Tidal.

I'd expect if it's a predictable issue it can be compensated for..

 

[Ken Newton]

I'd expect if it's a predictable issue it can be compensated for..

Yes, utilizing a soft anti-alias filter in conjunction with a wide transistion band enabled by MQA (or high res. for that matter) will natually help to avoid provoking, but not eliminate, the action of a brickwall playback filter sitting at the upper edge of the channel.