Although they might not have the high whining noise my Wiim makes when power is on.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?
- Thread starter Willhelm_Scream
- Start date
You know you see a DAC scam when Neumann sells a do-everything-under-the-sun MT48 pro audio interface for only $2000, and even that still has worse DAC line out performance vs something like a SMSL SU-1. Then again when the recording studios aren't even obsessed about the bleeding edge in D/A then why should the listeners be?
Basic Channel
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2024
- Messages
- 101
- Likes
- 75
Fortunately I only use my Wiim to listen to Rush.
"Enjoy the sunshine!"That's really nice to hear!
For my part, I apologize for thinking that you were a troll.This site is a target for a great number of persistent trolls, and I have a tendency to dismiss some people, perhaps too early.
Enjoy the sunshine!
Jim
Ehm, I live in Holland, and the sunshine is sorely lacking at the moment i'm afraid
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2024
- Messages
- 144
- Likes
- 478
"Enjoy the sunshine!"
Ehm, I live in Holland, and the sunshine is sorely lacking at the moment i'm afraid
Like the optimist said, "Sunshine comes in two kinds ... liquid and non-liquid."
Hope your day gets better!
Jim
So that makes two high whining noises! Does it mask?
Basic Channel
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2024
- Messages
- 101
- Likes
- 75
Ha ha, that was my attempted joke. I have neither a WIIM nor a Rush album!
Miguelón
Active Member
Ok, I’m really a troll but a reasonable one that loves music!That's really nice to hear!
For my part, I apologize for thinking that you were a troll.
Enjoy the sunshine!
Jim
I post this here for your consideration (the opening post for a recent thread on pink fish media... a long but entertaining read):
Many years ago I had a full stack of olive Naim boxes: CDS2/XPS/NAC52/Super/2xNAP135. I found myself getting irritated by the hassle of misplaced CDs, so I added a Squeezebox to my system. The earlier Squeezeboxes had poor sound quality from the RCAs, so I added my first external DAC: a Scott Nixon Chibi Saru. It was definitely better than the Squeezebox's built-in DAC, but I eventually changed to a Benchmark DAC2 HGC. This was well reviewed, and is still considered to be excellent at accurately reproducing the music.
The Benchmark had features that are becoming more common: a preamp section with a volume control, along with an analog input for my turntable (which almost never gets used). As an experiment one day, I tried skipping the NAC52 preamp, instead plugging it straight into my Naim NAP135s. The jump in clarity was astounding, and I immediately put the 52/Super up for sale. That started my move away from Naim, and there's none left now.
My friend had a Chord Qutest, and he remarked that he wanted something better. He sat me down and made me compare it to the RME ADI-2, and we both felt the Qutest was better.
Being completely happy with my Benchmark, I had him over to hear it. He gave it a listen, and announced that it wasn't good enough. Yes, it was astonishingly detailed, but he felt it was clinical and unengaging. I didn't really know what he was on about at the time, but asked what he was going to do. He told me that I thought perhaps a Denafrips Pontus might scratch his itch.
I still doubted that there was a benefit to be had, but one appeared on the used market near where I lived, so I snagged it. Lo and behold, there was a difference! Where the Benchmark seemed detailed and accurate, the Pontus was exuberant and exciting. My friend visited again, this time bringing his Qutest. We listened to all three, and I noted that the Qutest sat somewhere between the two, while doing best with its fluidity. Three DACs--three distinct personalities! I told my friend that preferred the Pontus, then he resolutely announced that none of them was good enough! He wanted a single DAC that had the strengths of all three.
"What might that be?" He had heard of the T+A DAC200, which was much more expensive. It also had an option for an HDMI input, to play SACDs from his Oppo Blu-ray player. (My friend is very attached to his physical media.) I found a relatively cheap used unit nearby, so that we could compare the lot of them.
Someone here on PFM was remarking that the well measuring Topping DACs were completely satisfactory, so I bought a Topping DX3 Pro+ from Amazon. It would be interesting to add it to the mix.
I should mention that my friend lives more than 3,000 km from me, so he's not over every weekend. It was a few months before he had a chance to visit again. Once more, he brought his Qutest, and we were able to compare the five different DACs. The Topping was eliminated almost immediately, sounding thin and brash. We were very familiar with the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips, and it was immediately obvious that the expensive T+A had all the attributes that my friend desired. However, he was not eager to spend so much, and the unit that I had acquired didn't have the HDMI input that he needed.
Complicating things further, he had heard that Weiss had excellent DACs, but their DAC501 and DAC502 were even more expensive than the T+A. In the intervening time while we were waiting for him to visit, the Weiss DAC204 was released--a smaller and much cheaper option. I was able to get a unit at dealer cost (before Weiss raised the price), so I figured I could flip it without losing anything.
Yes, the Weiss was good. Not quite as good as the T+A, but not far off. The T+A had more body, with a natural solidity to the notes, but the Weiss surpassed the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips. I should note that I wasn't impressed with the Weiss until I used a linear supply instead of its included SMPS. I planned to take it with me when I was next able to visit my friend, so he could hear it for himself.
Before I made it there, my friend decided he should take one for the team, and impulsively bought a refurbished PS Audio DirectStream DAC (traded in by someone upgrading to the Mark 2). He has a PS Audio Power Plant P5, and has long appreciated the attitude of the company, even though he's never owned anything other than their power products. Unfortunately, he soon learned that he didn't like their house sound. The presentation was incredible for its beauty and soundstage, but was rhythmically sedated. Once at his house, I confirmed his impressions: It was as if the musicians were all playing 5 bpm too slowly, and had just swallowed a gallon of sleepy-time-tea. Great for tinkly background dinner music, but totally lacking the rhythmic aggression and startling dynamics that my friend and I demand.
Then we hooked up the Weiss, and it immediately showed its superiority, with rhythmic engagement, detailed melodic flow, and musical lyricism. My friend was smitten! Unfortunately, the Weiss was quirky, and he couldn't get it to work with all of his desired digital sources.
Soon after, my friend learned of Ferrum, with its Wandla DAC, optional Hypsos power supply, and FPL (Ferrum Power Link) umbilical chord. As with the Weiss, a dealer friend sold it to me for his cost, so we could try it with little financial risk.
First off, the Wandla with its included SMPS wasn't that impressive. (The Weiss+LPS was clearly better.) Then I hooked up the Hypsos supply, but using the standard barrel connector. That brought it neck and neck with Weiss. When I introduced the FPL cable, it surpassed the Weiss! The FPL is a 4-pin cable that feeds the supplies directly to the circuit boards within the Wandla.
So how does the Ferrum combo stack up against the T+A? I would say that it's virtually indistinguishable when both are fed a regular digital signal. The Wandla has some HQPlayer filters built-in, and they add a bit of magic. The T+A does sound a touch more polished and natural, but only when compared side-by-side. However, if you're willing to upsample your digital info with HQPlayer yourself (far beyond what's included in the Wandla), then the T+A really shines.
In my case, I'm still using Squeezeboxes throughout my house, and I didn't want to go to the trouble of upsampling before the DAC. (FWIW, I've tried Roon and I didn't like it.) Therefore, the Ferrum combo is the best fit for my use case. If I were willing to go the route of HQPlayer, et al., then I would stick with the T+A. For convenience, though, it's just not worth the hassle.
Now my friend has the Ferrum combo, and I have two (one in my office and one in the family room). In summary, here is my list of DACs, ordered by my personal preference:
Scott Nixon Chibi Saru (hiding in the garage)
Topping DX3 Pro+ (decisively returned to Amazon)
Chord Mojo 2 (used when on the run)
RME ADI-2 (sold by my friend)
Chord Qutest (sold by my friend)
Benchmark DAC2 HGC (still in use here and there)
Denafrips Pontus II (sold back to the fellow who sold it to me)
Weiss DAC204 w/LPS (well loved by another PFM member)
Ferrum Wandla+Hypsos+FPL (our daily drivers)
T+A DAC200 (currently up for sale)
I think I'm done with DACs for now.
Many years ago I had a full stack of olive Naim boxes: CDS2/XPS/NAC52/Super/2xNAP135. I found myself getting irritated by the hassle of misplaced CDs, so I added a Squeezebox to my system. The earlier Squeezeboxes had poor sound quality from the RCAs, so I added my first external DAC: a Scott Nixon Chibi Saru. It was definitely better than the Squeezebox's built-in DAC, but I eventually changed to a Benchmark DAC2 HGC. This was well reviewed, and is still considered to be excellent at accurately reproducing the music.
The Benchmark had features that are becoming more common: a preamp section with a volume control, along with an analog input for my turntable (which almost never gets used). As an experiment one day, I tried skipping the NAC52 preamp, instead plugging it straight into my Naim NAP135s. The jump in clarity was astounding, and I immediately put the 52/Super up for sale. That started my move away from Naim, and there's none left now.
My friend had a Chord Qutest, and he remarked that he wanted something better. He sat me down and made me compare it to the RME ADI-2, and we both felt the Qutest was better.
Being completely happy with my Benchmark, I had him over to hear it. He gave it a listen, and announced that it wasn't good enough. Yes, it was astonishingly detailed, but he felt it was clinical and unengaging. I didn't really know what he was on about at the time, but asked what he was going to do. He told me that I thought perhaps a Denafrips Pontus might scratch his itch.
I still doubted that there was a benefit to be had, but one appeared on the used market near where I lived, so I snagged it. Lo and behold, there was a difference! Where the Benchmark seemed detailed and accurate, the Pontus was exuberant and exciting. My friend visited again, this time bringing his Qutest. We listened to all three, and I noted that the Qutest sat somewhere between the two, while doing best with its fluidity. Three DACs--three distinct personalities! I told my friend that preferred the Pontus, then he resolutely announced that none of them was good enough! He wanted a single DAC that had the strengths of all three.
"What might that be?" He had heard of the T+A DAC200, which was much more expensive. It also had an option for an HDMI input, to play SACDs from his Oppo Blu-ray player. (My friend is very attached to his physical media.) I found a relatively cheap used unit nearby, so that we could compare the lot of them.
Someone here on PFM was remarking that the well measuring Topping DACs were completely satisfactory, so I bought a Topping DX3 Pro+ from Amazon. It would be interesting to add it to the mix.
I should mention that my friend lives more than 3,000 km from me, so he's not over every weekend. It was a few months before he had a chance to visit again. Once more, he brought his Qutest, and we were able to compare the five different DACs. The Topping was eliminated almost immediately, sounding thin and brash. We were very familiar with the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips, and it was immediately obvious that the expensive T+A had all the attributes that my friend desired. However, he was not eager to spend so much, and the unit that I had acquired didn't have the HDMI input that he needed.
Complicating things further, he had heard that Weiss had excellent DACs, but their DAC501 and DAC502 were even more expensive than the T+A. In the intervening time while we were waiting for him to visit, the Weiss DAC204 was released--a smaller and much cheaper option. I was able to get a unit at dealer cost (before Weiss raised the price), so I figured I could flip it without losing anything.
Yes, the Weiss was good. Not quite as good as the T+A, but not far off. The T+A had more body, with a natural solidity to the notes, but the Weiss surpassed the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips. I should note that I wasn't impressed with the Weiss until I used a linear supply instead of its included SMPS. I planned to take it with me when I was next able to visit my friend, so he could hear it for himself.
Before I made it there, my friend decided he should take one for the team, and impulsively bought a refurbished PS Audio DirectStream DAC (traded in by someone upgrading to the Mark 2). He has a PS Audio Power Plant P5, and has long appreciated the attitude of the company, even though he's never owned anything other than their power products. Unfortunately, he soon learned that he didn't like their house sound. The presentation was incredible for its beauty and soundstage, but was rhythmically sedated. Once at his house, I confirmed his impressions: It was as if the musicians were all playing 5 bpm too slowly, and had just swallowed a gallon of sleepy-time-tea. Great for tinkly background dinner music, but totally lacking the rhythmic aggression and startling dynamics that my friend and I demand.
Then we hooked up the Weiss, and it immediately showed its superiority, with rhythmic engagement, detailed melodic flow, and musical lyricism. My friend was smitten! Unfortunately, the Weiss was quirky, and he couldn't get it to work with all of his desired digital sources.
Soon after, my friend learned of Ferrum, with its Wandla DAC, optional Hypsos power supply, and FPL (Ferrum Power Link) umbilical chord. As with the Weiss, a dealer friend sold it to me for his cost, so we could try it with little financial risk.
First off, the Wandla with its included SMPS wasn't that impressive. (The Weiss+LPS was clearly better.) Then I hooked up the Hypsos supply, but using the standard barrel connector. That brought it neck and neck with Weiss. When I introduced the FPL cable, it surpassed the Weiss! The FPL is a 4-pin cable that feeds the supplies directly to the circuit boards within the Wandla.
So how does the Ferrum combo stack up against the T+A? I would say that it's virtually indistinguishable when both are fed a regular digital signal. The Wandla has some HQPlayer filters built-in, and they add a bit of magic. The T+A does sound a touch more polished and natural, but only when compared side-by-side. However, if you're willing to upsample your digital info with HQPlayer yourself (far beyond what's included in the Wandla), then the T+A really shines.
In my case, I'm still using Squeezeboxes throughout my house, and I didn't want to go to the trouble of upsampling before the DAC. (FWIW, I've tried Roon and I didn't like it.) Therefore, the Ferrum combo is the best fit for my use case. If I were willing to go the route of HQPlayer, et al., then I would stick with the T+A. For convenience, though, it's just not worth the hassle.
Now my friend has the Ferrum combo, and I have two (one in my office and one in the family room). In summary, here is my list of DACs, ordered by my personal preference:
Scott Nixon Chibi Saru (hiding in the garage)
Topping DX3 Pro+ (decisively returned to Amazon)
Chord Mojo 2 (used when on the run)
RME ADI-2 (sold by my friend)
Chord Qutest (sold by my friend)
Benchmark DAC2 HGC (still in use here and there)
Denafrips Pontus II (sold back to the fellow who sold it to me)
Weiss DAC204 w/LPS (well loved by another PFM member)
Ferrum Wandla+Hypsos+FPL (our daily drivers)
T+A DAC200 (currently up for sale)
I think I'm done with DACs for now.
If only he had implemented some basic controls when he conducted his comparisons.
Krith
Krith
One person's hobby is another's expensive waste of time.
I'm not convinced it will be entertaining enough for the length. Not going there.
Argument from incredulity…. Classic.
TL/DR - He was surprised to find DACs had different 'personalities.'
The really expensive ones had better personalities.
OH NO!!!
*runs of to buy expensive DACs*
Wait...what? - we've heard that one before haven't we?
PS - thanks for reading that, so I didn't have to.
oleg87
Senior Member
I still keep a copy of my half-terabyte music collection on my ancient video iPod.
Miguelón
Active Member
I loved my ipod a lot, was finally broken!
But always missed the sound of CD, so went back and forth from the ipod to the discman. Happy years, when music was simple: CD was at the top and the wild forest of digital formats, resolutions, compressions, and subsequent depressions had not yet complicate listeners life!
There must be something wrong with your Wiim. I don't have that issue. Totally silent.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2021
- Messages
- 788
- Likes
- 595
Yes, as I endlessly flicked the page up to find the length, I did think that even Matt doesn't post this long!OH NO!!!
*runs of to buy expensive DACs*
Wait...what? - we've heard that one before haven't we?
PS - thanks for reading that, so I didn't have to.
I think it’s a known issue with earlier production runs
Post in thread 'WiiM Amp discussion'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-amp-discussion.47096/post-1821305
Similar threads
- Poll