Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[BDWoody]

Can you prove there is no better method?

Scientific method is no more than a method. The so called “conclusions” are in fact “hypothesis”. As a hypothesis cannot be verified by the method, just contradicted, it will be always a “belief”.
So science is a set of collective beliefs taken as universal truths.

Is there a point to all this?

Please don’t shoot me! As a cure for pseudo-intellectualism it will be a little excessive…

That's enough. Your act has worn thin.

 

[sam_adams]

Can you prove that a person cannot walk on the surface of the sun?

The Sun does not have a solid surface like the Earth or the other rocky planets in the Solar System.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The Sun does not have a solid surface like the Earth or the other rocky planets in the Solar System.

Oh yeah? Can you prove the surface has to be solid for someone to walk upon it? /s

 

[pkane]

Please don’t shoot me! As a cure for pseudo-intellectualism it will be a little excessive…

Yes ... but only a little.

But likely to be effective, and to a great measure -- satisfying

 

[antcollinet]

This is precisely science… just replace “personal” by “collective” and you get its definition

You are sounding very much like a troll right now.

EDIT : Seems I'm late to the party.

 

[Basic Channel]

Regardless of my biological classification (troll or uneducated idiot), I’m making some philosophical digressions, not mines unfortunately, culturally existed before me… in Descartes “Discourse de la Méthode”

Non cogitas, ergo non es

 

[Miss_Sissy]

Personally I’m not offended, I think it was just a communication error…

You started to participate in a point of a light and slightly comical philosophical debate

Without the benefit of seeing facial expressions or hearing telltale intonations and chuckles, it's often difficult to discern when someone is "kidding" in an online discussion. That's where emojis/smilies come in. Even an occasional "{kidding}" can help immensely.

Did you, perchance, end up here when your browser autocorrected AudioSeanceReview to AudioScienceReview?

 

[MacClintock]

Any truth to this ? Not that it would matter, there is no relevant content above 20kHz, but still?

 

[antcollinet]

Any truth to this ? Not that it would matter, there is no relevant content above 20kHz, but still?

Dunno. In one of the screenshots of the frequency response, one of the files had significanlty higher noise floor above 20kHz, but it was not possible to see the scale.

He did seem to answer all the questions we'd normally ask about controls, and we know that filters can impact FR at 20kHz and above.

If your hearing extends up or beyond that level then perhaps it is audible - and if his test has been correctly carried out as described, he has proven that he can hear it.

However his video contradicts his clickbait title.

1 : Even under the test conditions the result doesn't matter.

especially given how high a frequency it is most people
are probably not going to be able to
hear and those that can are probably
going to find that it's too small a
difference for them to care about anyway

2 : He's not testing a difference between DACs, but between filters. It is often been pointed out that if you use a filter which impacts the FR in the audible range that this will be .... audible. In this case the filters are making changes in (his) audible range - which would not be the case for the vast majority of people. We normally (often unspoken) mean that DACs are indistinguishable when they are using similar performing filters. Most Dacs default filters are of similar performance.

So here he has two edge cases combined. One is a person whose hearing extends above the range of the vast majority of people. Second - he is comparing two filters - one of which is not used in the vast majority of DACS which creates a difference in his higher than normal frequency range.

I'm not sure it is a result that has any significant impact for the premise of this thread.

 

[Chagall]

Any truth to this ? Not that it would matter, there is no relevant content above 20kHz, but still?

IMO he made a great case to go with a transparent low-cost DAC. No matter what people spend on DACs, they won't hear any difference if they don't have perfect hearing. Even if they do the differences will be subtle and potentially not worth it.

Bottom line: He said that the differences are subtle and that spending money on better headphones is the way to go. Completely agree and applaud him for the work he did.

 

[MacClintock]

Dunno. In one of the screenshots of the frequency response, one of the files had significanlty higher noise floor above 20kHz, but it was not possible to see the scale.

He did seem to answer all the questions we'd normally ask about controls, and we know that filters can impact FR at 20kHz and above.

If your hearing extends up or beyond that level then perhaps it is audible - and if his test has been correctly carried out as described, he has proven that he can hear it.

However his video contradicts his clickbait title.

1 : Even under the test conditions the result doesn't matter:specially given


2 : He's not testing a difference between DACs, but between filters. It is often been pointed out that if you use a filter which impacts the FR in the audible range that this will be .... audible. In this case the filters are making changes in (his) audible range - which would not be the case for the vast majority of people. We normally (often unspoken) mean that DACs are indistinguishable when they are using similar performing filters. Most Dacs default filters are of similar performance.

So here he has two edge cases combined. One is a person whose hearing extends above the range of the vast majority of people. Second - he is comparing two filters - one of which is not used in the vast majority of DACS which creates a difference in his higher than normal frequency range.

I'm not sure it is a result that has any significant impact for the premise of this thread.

Totally agree. One could summarize it, are there audible differences between competent measuring DACs? Yes, for bats.

 

[MacClintock]

IMO he made a great case to go with a transparent low-cost DAC. No matter what people spend on DACs, they won't hear any difference if they don't have perfect hearing. Even if they do the differences will be subtle and potentially not worth it.

Bottom line: He said that the differences are subtle and that spending money on better headphones is the way to go. Completely agree and applaud him for the work he did.

Well, yes and no. The video has the clickbait title "proof that DACs matter" and he argues that this extra bit might make it worthwile to spend more if you care, following known audiophool myths.

 

[MaxBuck]

Are there differences? Yes. Are they meaningful? Probably not, for the vast majority of people. Why do they exist? The characteristics of the filter(s) are the predominant influences.

Those are the conclusions I reach from the video. I'm probably oversimplifying, and I may be wrong on a point or two. But I really think that's the takeaway.

 

[antcollinet]

Are there differences? Yes. Are they meaningful? Probably not, for the vast majority of people. Why do they exist? The characteristics of the filter(s) are the predominant influences.

Those are the conclusions I reach from the video. I'm probably oversimplifying, and I may be wrong on a point or two. But I really think that's the takeaway.

I'd mod that slightly.

Are there differences? Not for the vast majority of people. For the tiny minority who can hear a difference between these very different filters, is it meaningful? No.

 

[solderdude]

People that are so worried with content above 20kHz should not be using 44.1kHz files but only use 88.1kHz or higher files.
In those cases even a slow filter would not be audible detectable by Goldenears.

As a lot of content is 44.1kHz with who knows what type of anti-alias filter on the ADC side or downsampler used in the production phase, Goldenears should just use his 'ideal' upsampling filter in that case while audiophiles (usually over 40 y.o.) would not be bothered anyway.

Indeed ... spend most funds on quality transducers...
That said... there can be little correlation between price and performance of transducers.

 

[MaxBuck]

I'd mod that slightly.

Are there differences? Not for the vast majority of people. For the tiny minority who can hear a difference between these very different filters, is it meaningful? No.

Fair enough. Bottom line: nobody should be paying more for a DAC for the purpose of improving sound quality, assuming you're limiting yourself to competent equipment. Aesthetics, features, made where you live, other factors are all valid reasons to pay more, but not sound quality.

 

[antcollinet]

Fair enough. Bottom line: nobody should be paying more for a DAC for the purpose of improving sound quality, assuming you're limiting yourself to competent equipment. Aesthetics, features, made where you live, other factors are all valid reasons to pay more, but not sound quality.

100%

 

[ads_cft222]

Any truth to this ? Not that it would matter, there is no relevant content above 20kHz, but still?

Actually he is hypothesising that this is the reason he can hear a difference .At 16:53 he says that there are lot of claims regarding transient handling and time domain issues about upsampling which he could verify(or not) if he repeats the test when he verifies that he can no longer hear above 20k thus steer the explanation of possibly passing abx again to these other reasons.

 

[StandardModel]

I have purchased a LAiV Harmony Dac. It is beautiful inside and out. It uses the best of the best components and I absolutely love the sound. In my opinion, for $2,700 you get a $10,000 Dac.
The reviewers are gushing over it.
Darko: https://darko.audio/2024/04/laiv-harmony-dac-review/#:~:text=Yet the Harmony's tonal substance,brand name seems well chosen.
6 Moons. LAiV wins Blue Moon award:https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/laiv-audio-harmony-dac/
Steve Huff. This will be the hottest Dac of 20214 :

iiWi Reviews:

ViryualHiFi

What do you say?

 

[ErVikingo]

I ordered one last week. Waiting for delivery. From what I read and what Weng Fai described should be a nice unit.