Spyware In Cars - It's Worse Than You Think

[Ron Texas]

No social media here, either.

I still use Facebook, but I have deleted years of posts and quit most groups.

 

[RayDunzl]

Looked up Toyota's (Lack of ) Privacy statement...

I have a 2023 Camry.

It still has mechanical gauges, and a real key (though attached to a necessary fob).

Seen it report up to 45mpg on my 20 miles of I-75 and 23 miles of get to the highway and two-lane highway going to the Airport.

Privacy and protection

 

[somebodyelse]

It still has mechanical gauges, and a real key (though attached to a necessary fob).

My guess: the mechanical key is mainly for the steering lock, and the needles are driven by data arriving via the CAN bus, not an analog voltage from a sensor or a pure mechanical drive.

 

[RayDunzl]

Oh yeah, the gauges are "data driven", no doubt.

There's no "pushbutton start" so the key does that job too.

There's a "hidden" key lock for the electric trunk unlocker, and I found the secret release lever for the electric fuel door.

 

[Count Arthur]

Oh yeah, the gauges are "data driven", no doubt.

There's no "pushbutton start" so the key does that job too.

There's a "hidden" key lock for the electric trunk unlocker, and I found the secret release lever for the electric fuel door.

The last time I hired a car, I had to phone the rental company because I couldn't find the button or lever to open the hatch covering the fuel cap.

 

[RayDunzl]

I tried to move a Nissan Leaf at the airport, the "fob" was in the seat.

Couldnt figure it out.

Later he said "you have to step on the brake".

 

[somebodyelse]

And good luck finding a physical manual to luck such oddities up in.

 

[DesertRatt]

It's getting more and more tempting to go back to a pre-1996 vehicle (Pre OnStar).

 

[levimax]

Speaking of long EULAs and spying, I recently bought a new "Smart TV" (Spy TV?) and during the set up I declined all the "enable spying EULAs" at which point the TV became quite dumb and would only show content from HDMI devices connected to it. All the built in streaming and other features were disabled. I looked at the giant box it came in which told all the smart features and no where did it say I had to agree to be spied on to use them. I talked to an attorney buddy and he laughed and said I could take it back for a refund if I wanted but that was about it. Due to pressure from other household members who wanted to watch Netflix and Hulu and Disney I had to go in and agree to be spied on and then everything worked. During this process I actually read what was in those EULA's and even though I am not a lawyer they were infuriating and depressing. The information collected by your phone, car, and TV are more than enough to "own" you. Discussing this issue with people I am often accused of being paranoid and then I ask the question "In the history of the world when has being spied on been good for an individual"?

 

[somebodyelse]

Discussing this issue with people I am often accused of being paranoid

I know the feeling.

 

[sergeauckland]

It's getting more and more tempting to go back to a pre-1996 vehicle (Pre OnStar).

I still have a 2011 BMW, bought new, which I hope to keep forever. It has physical buttons and knobs for the in-driving functions, doesn't have a touchscreen, and only uses the screen for 'maintenance' tasks like clock setting and tyre pressure and oil monitors. It doesn't have any form of on-line connectivity so no spyware. Drives really well, although has only done some 95,000 miles, so still a teenager.

Dreading having to buy a new car as I really don't like what I read about the intrusion, monitoring and control the manufacturers retain over what should be mine, outright, once I've paid for it.

S.

 

[DesertRatt]

Paradox: We are the only species of animal that denies the value of freedom and privacy. And yet we have the most developed brain.

 

[Audiofire]

Paradox: We are the only species of animal that denies the value of freedom and privacy. And yet we have the most developed brain.

 

[levimax]

I still have a 2011 BMW, bought new, which I hope to keep forever. It has physical buttons and knobs for the in-driving functions, doesn't have a touchscreen, and only uses the screen for 'maintenance' tasks like clock setting and tyre pressure and oil monitors. It doesn't have any form of on-line connectivity so no spyware. Drives really well, although has only done some 95,000 miles, so still a teenager.

Dreading having to buy a new car as I really don't like what I read about the intrusion, monitoring and control the manufacturers retain over what should be mine, outright, once I've paid for it.

S.

Don't worry, new cars have lots of new conveniences, features, and cool graphics to make up for any loss of privacy.

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

This video is on DNA data, but covers the privacy vs sharing aspects as well, including how you may not have any control. Worth watching.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Paradox: We are the only species of animal that denies the value of freedom and privacy. And yet we have the most developed brain.

That seems rather specious. Does any other animal have concepts to consider freedom or privacy? Limiting pure uncontrolled animal instinct in various ways is a huge advantage for humans and you need the big brain for that. Since limits are part and parcel of being human, then along with technological influences it isn't surprising that defining, redefining and reevaluating where to draw the line for freedom and privacy is a constantly evolving situation.

If you are interested I'd recommend this book on freedom of thought as a right. Freedom of speech, and action don't really incorporate freedom of thought as a right. Until technology could potentially interfere it might not have been needed or enforceable. It is a new issue that will need figuring out in our society and soon. This isn't some pop political treatment rather a well considered academic treatment of the issue.

Amazon.com

 

[Ron Texas]

Looked up Toyota's (Lack of ) Privacy statement...

I have a 2023 Camry.

It still has mechanical gauges, and a real key (though attached to a necessary fob).

Seen it report up to 45mpg on my 20 miles of I-75 and 23 miles of get to the highway and two-lane highway going to the Airport.

Privacy and protection

I rented a late model Camry in February. It averaged well over 30 MPG driving around Berkeley and a trip up to Sonoma. Yes, it had an ignition key. The ironic part is my Wrangler probably would have hit 18 or 19 MPG for that trip but the cost of gas in California is so high that in cents per mile the Camry cost as much to run as the Wrangler does in Houston. Toyota has a solid product and I believe their traditional hybrid approach is superior to the EV/PHEV approach being pushed by regulators. Toyota's analysis shows a greater reduction in carbon emissions with traditional hybrids than EV/PHEV because of acceptance and much lower energy costs to produce the smaller batteries.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think it was in a Vernor Vinge SciFi book, where one character's method of dealing with surveillance was to do it on himself 24/7 no matter what he was doing. He was involved in a business that wasn't welcome by those in power. He feared they would make up something so he had what we'd now call social network feeds to anyone who would watch all the time. I think this book was from the 1990's. And even more interesting there have been a handful of people who to protect themselves from gov't persecution in Western developed countries who did exactly this in the last decade.

 

[DesertRatt]

That seems rather specious. Does any other animal have concepts to consider freedom or privacy? Limiting pure uncontrolled animal instinct in various ways is a huge advantage for humans and you need the big brain for that. Since limits are part and parcel of being human, then along with technological influences it isn't surprising that defining, redefining and reevaluating where to draw the line for freedom and privacy is a constantly evolving situation.

It's not specious if one believes in Nature. Humans survived over 2 million years free of industrial-political technology. Only in the last 15,000 years - a mere tick in human history- have the species been captured by the "big brain" idea of civilzation and all the burdens it has precipitated on humans. Because of this concept of civilization, we have polluted and poisoned our air, water, and food. We have made a hell on Earth for at least half the human population and nearly all of the animal population. We have devised a thousand tortures against the rest of Nature's species of plants and animals. And that is good because we wanted to have limits?

Every species has a unique way of existing, surviving and passing their genetic material forward. Is the field mouse, the giraffe, the blue whale unhappy, unfulfilled, throttled from their natural expression? Mankind was once just as free to live their life. Civilization is simply an idea being tried out. An idea to harness the masses for the benefits of the few - the one in 10 million born with massive excess of ambition. Freaks of Nature, actually. It is that idea that has bloomed to enslave Mankind.

 

[Doodski]

Because of this concept of civilization, we have polluted and poisoned our air, water, and food.

We have made a hell on Earth for at least half the human population and nearly all of the animal population.

We have devised a thousand tortures against the rest of Nature's species of plants and animals.

Have you studied Canada lately. It is mostly uninhabited space that is simply left to do what comes naturally. More and more of it every few years or so is deemed in perpetuity to be some sort of protected park or whatever they legally phrase the stuff as.