Transparent dac

[Thomas savage]

want some suggestions on a transparent dac that my objectivists brothers would approve of. No audiophile delusion, just perfect operational performance.

I believe such a device is obtainable at relatively low cost...

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I have no clue what would conform to your low cost/perfect performance criteria. I am an extremely happy Exasound user, myself, but they are not low cost. Kal is also a big fan. George Klissarov, the Toronto-based designer, is impressive in what he has done, and he has been relatively open about it at CA forum. I have found my E28 to be relatively well isolated from all the supposed "USB nasties". And, my sound is quite easily the best I have ever had in my long journey as an audiophile. ESS Sabre chip, by the way, supporting up to PCM 384 and DSD 256 plus a built-in volume control. Not USB powered.

My suggestion would be to flip through the Stereophile reviews online looking for JA's measurements. I think he just did something on the $300 Meridian Explorer 2, which has MQA, by the way. Though I intensely dislike the company, I think you might be OK with an AQ Dragonfly at low cost. I believe they are Gordon Rankin designs, and he might be somewhat respectable. Not totally sure about that, though, even if he was a pioneer of asynch USB.

The sad thing about computer audio is that it is still largely a captive of the cottage industry, DIY computer crowd, who are not audio engineers. They only think they are. In some cases, they are not engineers at all. Therefore, they don't measure the audio, like any self respecting audio engineer would. JK is a classic example, as we know all too well. I believe that a well known, quality-conscious audio company like Meridian does measure by established audio standards, even if they do not publish them.

I am not impressed by Schiit, and I think Amir returned one of theirs for good. They do claim to measure, but Amir was unimpressed. Plus, I just do not like their arrogant, in your face name. The joke wore off a long time ago, guys.

Price gets up over $1,000, but you might also consider an Oppo 105D player, which has an ESS DAC chip and an asynch USB input for stereo, HDMI for Mch. They have become a very respectable audio company with excellent customer service.

But, good luck.

 

[Thomas savage]

I asked as I often have read guys saying things like ' transparent digital can be have for $500' or similar .
So I thought we could compile a list of the ones our technical members deem of significant standing.

I have no clue.

 

[Purité Audio]

Almost every competently designed oversampling DAC will be audibly transparent, adding valves and ding o away with the reconstruction filter will add distortion.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

Ok, some suggestions of ' competently' designed DAC's for around the sum mentioned...

 

[Blumlein 88]

Emotiva Stealth is one.

What the Barrowmaster said is true.

 

[Thomas savage]

Emotiva Stealth is one.

What the Barrowmaster said is true.

Thanks

https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1

 

[Purité Audio]

What kind of DAC does he want, you have your sports DAC, your touring DAC, your saloon, the Emotiva is a real head turner! Sorry slipped into my old car salesman patter.
Which features does he require?
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

What kind of DAC does he want, you have your sports DAC, your touring DAC, your saloon, the Emotiva is a real head turner! Sorry slipped into my old car salesman patter.
Which features does he require?
Keith.

Plug in and it works.. Plug into active speakers and it works, plug into amp and it works...

Plug CD player into it and... It works.

Err... Did I mention it had to work?

 

[Purité Audio]

Does he need it to attenuate volume ? DSD ?
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

Does he need it to attenuate volume ? DSD ?
Keith

In order for it to 'work' when plugged into amp.. Yes a properly implemented volume control will be needed.

DSD is irrelevant, no recordings of intrest are exclusive to this format.

 

[Ken Newton]

Hi, Thomas,

The concept of 'transparent' is where we can run in to trouble from the outset. It's quite easy these days to find objectively transparent DACs. Objectively transparent meaning, with regards to the measured parameters in DACs which have always meant transparent for pure analog audio. Such as, a flat frequency response across the entire audible band, low harmonic and intermod. distortion, low noise/high dynamic range. Perhaps, the one exception there is the importance of a clean time domain response for purely analog systems. The conundrum with digital has been that it objectively exceeds the limits of human hearing across all those parameters, yet, mysteriously, still can subjectively sound less than satisfying. Subjectively transparent is another matter.

Part of the issue with purely parameter based measurement is that it's usually assumed that a good set of objective measurements necessarily equals good subjective sound. Except, that experience tells us that is not always true, particularly, it seems, when it comes to digital audio. That is not to suggest that parameter measurement cannot reliably predict subjective performance, I believe it can, as long as we have full psychoacoustic command of which parameters matter, how much they matter, under what contexts or conditions they matter and how to interpret those meansurements for the purpose of human listening, not simply for obtaining an impressive spectrum analyzer readout.

All of that said (in my usual long winded style), is your friend more concerned about having a healthy set of standard specifications, or more in having subjective musical enjoyment - keeping in mind those are often two different things when it comes to DACs. Unfortunately, if both are equally important it usually leads only to very costly DAC options.

 

[Thomas savage]

Well the budget is low so I wanted to see if we could come up with some options that are well thought out technically rather than spending on audiophile mythology. I would not have a clue in this regard but some of our members do.

If someone has listened to music through it too, all the better.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Transparency is not a troubled concept. Subjective transparency is not some different variant. If you can't hear it's effect the gear is transparent.

If subjective musical enjoyment differs from transparency then we are taking about a pleasing coloration. You can't have one transparent DAC that is amusical and another transparent DAC that is musical. By definition at least one of those is not transparent.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If someone has listened to music through it too, all the better.

That is why I only listed one. There are others I feel pretty sure about but haven't used. There are some that are discontinued. There are some that are recording interfaces which works fine just no remote control.

Teac and Tascam have DACs in that price range that should be fine, but I haven't had hands on them.

 

[Purité Audio]

Hi, Thomas,

The concept of 'transparent' is where we can run in to trouble from the outset. It's quite easy these days to find objectively transparent DACs. Objectively transparent meaning those same parameters in DACs that it has always meant for pure analog audio. A flat frequency response across the entire audible band, low harmonic and intermod. distortion, low noise/high dynamic range. Perhaps, the one exception here is the importance of a clean time domain response for purely analog systems. The conundrum with digital has been that it objectively exceeds the limits of human hearing across all those parameters, yet, mysteriously, still can subjectively sound less than satisfying. Subjectively transparent is another matter.

Part of the issue with purely parameter based measurement is that it's usually assumed that a good set of objective measurements necessarily equals good subjective sound. Except, that experience tells us that is not always true, particularly, it seems, when it comes to digital audio. That is not to suggest that parameter measurement cannot reliably predict subjective performance, I believe it can, as long as we have full psychoacoustic command of which parameters matter, how much they matter, under what contexts or conditions they matter and how to interpret those meansurements for the purpose of human listening, not simply for obtaining an impressive spectrum analyzer readout.

All of that said (in my usual long winded style), is your friend more concerned about having a healthy set of standard specifications, or more in having subjective musical enjoyment - keeping in mind those often two different things when it comes to DACs. Unfortunately, if both are equally important usually leads only to very costly DAC options.

Ken why wouldnt a digital to analogue converter which has excellent measurements not provide musical enjoyment ,what am I paying for to gain musical enjoyment?
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

That is why I only listed one. There are others I feel pretty sure about but haven't used. There are some that are discontinued. There are some that are recording interfaces which works fine just no remote control.

Feel free to list others based solely on your technical appreciation of them..

Have you any experience with other products from emotive? I will need amps or active speakers too.

 

[Purité Audio]

What's his budget for the active loudspeakers?
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

£1000 but will start another thread on that...

As I will for technically competent amps .

This is for me, well it's a present but also for guests and alike who want good advice from guys who know what great design is.

I want to cut away the audiophile bs and be left with a solid system you could be proud to own and that represents the kind of design values we hold dear here at ASR.

 

[Purité Audio]

John Kenny's dacs are beautifully reboxed I believe.
Keith