Why do you think a few members have an 'alcoholic anonymous' vibe towards the audiophile community? It seems a harmless hobby as far as things go?

[JustJones]

I didn't have you read anything. You said no money was set aside. Wrong.

 

[JustJones]

I never bought a Mofi record, never had a desire to buy one, don't care one way or the other who got what or had to pay what. To me it's just the facts. Plaintiffs attorneys were paid by defendants, defendants paid into settlement fund , paid whatever amount out to claimants and they got to say they didn't defraud anyone. Whatever was left in settlement fund unclaimed is residual and divided among claimants not returned to defendant. I have no idea how much was originally in the fund.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I didn't have you read anything. You said no money was set aside. Wrong.

No, I was right. No mention of money being set aside much less $25,000,000.00. Lawyer fees were paid, $290,000.00. The whining pathetic plaintiffs were paid $10,000.00 for being butt hurt AAA cultists and the rest of the estimated $890,000.00 was paid in refunds upon received returns of eligible LPs or $5.00 rebates or $10.00 coupons toward future purchases. If you are going to cite a 39 page document please have the decency to check to make sure it supports your assertion.

 

[JustJones]

If "Defendants are DIRECTED to fund the settlement." Isn't setting money aside what is it?

In my opinion defendants won.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

If "Defendants are DIRECTED to fund the settlement." Isn't setting money aside what is it?

In my opinion defendants won.

A pay out. And it wasn’t $25,000,000.00

And yes, the whining butt hurt cultists were rewarded for their stupidity and childishness.

 

[Victor Martell]

You had me read 39 pages. What did I find? Estimated total cost to MoFi $890,000.00. I didn’t find any mention of setting aside $25,000,000.00. And it is done. Whatever refunds were claimed had to be done by a deadline. The payout total was about $890,000.00. And MoFi is free to resell every record they fully refunded because they had to be returned. Many of the records eligible for refunds were and still are selling above the retail price. Not to mention that a major portion of that payout was in the form of a coupon that could be used for any future purchase of a MoFi product. That’s nothing more than a revenue generating discount.

And in my mind that is OK. Would have been sad if they disappeared because of that, BUT they had to acknowledge and make amends. Whether you agree or NOT, they were at least desingenious in their marketing, if not purposely vague because they KNEW that would affect the sellability AND THE PRICE of their product. That is important and IMHO NOT OK.

Take the example of the company Music On Vinyl. They CLEARLY state that their product is high quality pressings, cut almost exclusively from digital sources. And the records sell and are appreciated. Many vinyl aficionados are not analog purists. THOSE RECORDS ARE ALSO CHEAPER THAN MoFi. Given that right or wrong, "all analog" pressings are considered a PREMIUM product, MoFi let it vague.

It is right that they had to make amends. I would like to stress again, that I don't care about the product having a DSD step. I did not return my records nor did I file a claim. It is just not OK what they did, IMHO.

 

[Newman]

You had me read 39 pages. What did I find? Estimated total cost to MoFi $890,000.00. I didn’t find any mention of setting aside $25,000,000.00. And it is done. Whatever refunds were claimed had to be done by a deadline. The payout total was about $890,000.00. And MoFi is free to resell every record they fully refunded because they had to be returned. Many of the records eligible for refunds were and still are selling above the retail price. Not to mention that a major portion of that payout was in the form of a coupon that could be used for any future purchase of a MoFi product. That’s nothing more than a revenue generating discount.

From Section IV (B): The court received one objection relating to the service awards. Richard J. Koloda objects to the court awarding Plaintiffs $10,000 each while they are still allowed to keep their allegedly “defective” records. (Koloda Obj. at 1-2.) He thinks it is unfair that Plaintiffs are “permitted to retain a valuable product that will only increase as an asset” and finds it “disconcerting” that Plaintiffs only filed their complaint after Defendants acknowledged that the Applicable Records included a digital processing step. (Id. at 2 (pointing out that the quality of the recordings is excellent and that the allegedly “tainted” records have been well-received for years).) As class representatives, however, Mr. Tuttle and Mr. Collman are entitled to receive the benefit of the settlement they helped to obtain. Therefore, the court overrules Mr. Koloda’s objection and grants Plaintiffs’ request for a $10,000 service award for each class representative. (My emphasis)

Looks like the owners got to keep the records.

 

[Galliardist]

A pay out. And it wasn’t $25,000,000.00

And yes, the whining butt hurt cultists were rewarded for their stupidity and childishness.

Well, looks like I got caught out somewhere. The actual payout total was always going to be less than the provision, and there was indeed a deadline, so it is done for a lot less than the amount, as you point out.

It's clear that the "tainted" records were on sale for years (the point I was trying to make, before I knew about that 39 page document), and any claim before the deadline would have required payment. Like you, most owners of those records either didn't care or didn't care enough to actually claim.

We can put the all analogue myth to bed. MoFi got stung a bit for whatever accidental or deliberate hiding of the digital step they did. The plaintiffs got some money, but hardly proved their case to anyone. The lawyers got a little richer.

The LPs keep coming, and we can buy yet another release of The Eagles' The Long Run from them in a few weeks time, safe in the knowledge that it's been duly cleaned up by a nice digital step.

Oh, and your stylus...

(Due to this process, there may be occasional pops or ticks inherent in initial play back, but as the disc is played more, a high quality stylus will actually polish the grooves and improve the sound).

(from the techonlogies section of their website). So now record wear is a good thing. What will they think of next?

Now, I thought this thread was supposed to be about us lot being negative towards whatever "audiophiles" happens to mean this month... perhaps we should all get back on topic?

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

It is right that they had to make amends. I would like to stress again, that I don't care about the product having a DSD step. I did not return my records nor did I file a claim. It is just not OK what they did, IMHO.

For me this is the rub. In a world filled with snake oil and con artists peddling it, in an industry where major companies like Synergistic Research and Shunyata are built on pure shameless fraud with owners flaunting their collection of Ferraris and their yachts bought on pure scams the one and only company to get sued and punished was one of the few that makes actual legitimate products.

Love ‘em, hate them or anything in between, MoFi actually makes products that are legit and unique.

And was it really about the “deception” or was it about exposing self deception? I am quite convinced it was about the anger for exposing a fanatical religion for what it is.

So was it right? The criminals who exploit these cultists carry on with their fraud with the full support of these nut jobs but the company that was legit gets punished for inadvertently exposing these cultists for what they are.

Anyway, back to the topic….

 

[Newman]

Sorry, what’s the topic again?

 

[Galliardist]

Sorry, what’s the topic again?

Something to do with you and Alcoholics Anonymous, I believe.

But I’m a teetotaller and therefore not drunk enough to understand the thread title…

 

[antcollinet]

But I’m a teetotaller and therefore not drunk enough to understand the thread title…

I think it is asking why some reformed subjectivists make a big deal about how lucky/happy they are to be out of it. You know, a bit 12th step.

Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to subjectivists and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 

[LouB]

Never heard of Mofi & just googled them & here's a quote from a record there selling,

RECORD ONE: 1/4" / 30 IPS analog copy to DSD 256 to analog console to lathe​

Are they saying they used 1/4" tape ?

 

[antcollinet]

Never heard of Mofi & just googled them & here's a quote from a record there selling,

RECORD ONE: 1/4" / 30 IPS analog copy to DSD 256 to analog console to lathe​

Are they saying they used 1/4" tape ?

No, I think they are saying the master is 1/4inch tape, then copied to DSD. Perhaps give a link for context.

 

[egellings]

Really more Onanism that preaching to the choir.

Nice sanitary word for that.

 

[Theta]

Would you say the same about gambling? In both high-end audio and gambling you lose money that you didn't need to.

Not all gamblers are losers.

 

[Dialectic]

I have seen this thread come up, and I read the OP's first post, and I still have no idea what he was asking.

He is not asking anything. He was annoyed that some members criticized the late Ken Fritz, whose combination of technical ignorance and obsessiveness caused him to waste vast sums on audio and alienate his family. The OP started this thread to complain about those members circuitously.

 

[Waxx]

He is not asking anything. He was annoyed that some members criticized the late Ken Fritz, whose combination of technical ignorance and obsessiveness caused him to waste vast sums on audio and alienate his family. The OP started this thread to complain about those members circuitously.

No, it's more about the slaughtering of persons who dare to prefer some colouration in the sound, and dare to speak out. I'm also subject to that with tube and class A amps (next to ultra clean amps) in my different setups. I'm not scared from that, but many who lurk here are. Even if we admit that they are technical inferior than ultra clean amps, we still pushed in the same category as people who spend a zillion on a special "audiophile" power cable.

 

[antcollinet]

Not all gamblers are losers.

On average they are. More money is lost than won.

 

[Robin L]

On average they are. More money is lost than won.

With one notable exception, the Casino always wins.