Working too hard can give you a Heart Attack Ack Ack Ack Ack Ack... My Heart Attack Story.

[Thomas_A]

Regarding atherosclerosis, there are several risk factors that includes life-style. But even given that you are a non-smoker, eat healthy and do your work-out, there is a significant genetic component as well. Some people just have higher cholesterol levels. I had quite normal levels when tested, but I am now on statins and levels of the bad ones are now way below the normal levels, which are good. Statins may have their side-effects (mostly with sudden needs to go to the loo) but they can actually help both stabilise and reduce plaques and even "heal" blood vessels.

The process of atherosclerosis includes inflammation as a main component, and inflammatory processes are quite interesting in this regard. Higher than normal inflammations markers may include causes such as stress and infections. I myself had an almost one-year cough 2018-2019 that eventually was cured with one week antibiotics - symptoms similar to C. pneumoniae infection. This occurred at the same time I got my heart symtoms. This pathogen is an obligate intracellular bacterium that has been found both in lungs and heart tissue. There are several publications of this pathogen and atherosclerosis, but no conclusive evidence for it to be involved in atherosclerosis. But one thing is clear though. It can cause long-lasting low-level infections with increased inflammatory markers which in no way should be good for your heart and vessels. It has also been shown to induce poor antibody response.

In Sweden there was also 16 cases of sudden deaths among orienteers some years ago, caused by heart arrest. This was a bit alarming, since no other sport at the time did have so many deaths within that time period. The real cause for the sudden increase in deaths was never found, but infections that spread within the community that exercised this sport was suspected. Both C. pneumoniae and Bartonella was suggested. One action was to treat the orienteers with antibiotics as prevention and after that no more deaths were observed. No clear evidence for what really caused the increase and disappearance of these deaths was however found.

So besides eating well and exercise, sleeping good is important. Stress over longer time periods must be avoided. And more research is needed for infections, including better diagnostic methods, for their involvement in inflammation and atherosclerosis.

Atherosclerosis by Virus Infection—A Short Review

Atherosclerosis manifests by the thickening of artery walls and their narrowed channels through the accumulation of plaque. It is one of the most important indicators of cardiovascular disease. It can be caused by various factors, such as smoking, a high ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BDWoody]

@BDWoody: For his selection of the title that brings up a few questions:
*Are you also thinking to "move out to the country"?
and/or
*Are you planning on trading up "for a Cadillac (ack, ack, ack, ack, ack)"?
I haven't even listened to that song lately but it has become a $%^# ear-worm for me, in the past few days!

Well, I was going to get a house out in Hackensack... But is that all I get for my money?

That version you linked will definitely be hard to forget!

 

[Salt]

Regarding atherosclerosis, there are several risk factors that includes life-style. But even given that you are a non-smoker, eat healthy and do your work-out, there is a significant genetic component as well. Some people just have higher cholesterol levels. I had quite normal levels when tested, but I am now on statins and levels of the bad ones are now way below the normal levels, which are good. Statins may have their side-effects (mostly with sudden needs to go to the loo) but they can actually help both stabilise and reduce plaques and even "heal" blood vessels.

The process of atherosclerosis includes inflammation as a main component, and inflammatory processes are quite interesting in this regard. Higher than normal inflammations markers may include causes such as stress and infections. I myself had an almost one-year cough 2018-2019 that eventually was cured with one week antibiotics - symptoms similar to C. pneumoniae infection. This occurred at the same time I got my heart symtoms. This pathogen is an obligate intracellular bacterium that has been found both in lungs and heart tissue. There are several publications of this pathogen and atherosclerosis, but no conclusive evidence for it to be involved in atherosclerosis. But one thing is clear though. It can cause long-lasting low-level infections with increased inflammatory markers which in no way should be good for your heart and vessels. It has also been shown to induce poor antibody response.

In Sweden there was also 16 cases of sudden deaths among orienteers some years ago, caused by heart arrest. This was a bit alarming, since no other sport at the time did have so many deaths within that time period. The real cause for the sudden increase in deaths was never found, but infections that spread within the community that exercised this sport was suspected. Both C. pneumoniae and Bartonella was suggested. One action was to treat the orienteers with antibiotics as prevention and after that no more deaths were observed. No clear evidence for what really caused the increase and disappearance of these deaths was however found.

So besides eating well and exercise, sleeping good is important. Stress over longer time periods must be avoided. And more research is needed for infections, including better diagnostic methods, for their involvement in inflammation and atherosclerosis.

Atherosclerosis by Virus Infection—A Short Review

Atherosclerosis manifests by the thickening of artery walls and their narrowed channels through the accumulation of plaque. It is one of the most important indicators of cardiovascular disease. It can be caused by various factors, such as smoking, a high ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Absolutely correct, and therefore year by year repeated by former chief of cardiovascular surgery of MHH, that best prevention of MI is vaccination against influenca. Studies gave hint to, that unvaccinated persons suffered 4 times more MI than vaccinated ones during influenca season.
Examinations of stenosed vessels had shown inflammations with viruses, bacteria and fine particels within them.
So the theoretical appraoch to this was (is), that cause for inflammation of the vascular wall is not from inside (cholesterole), but from outside via the vessels of the vessels.
How then to explain statins and Aspirine reduce risk of heart attack? Both reduce inflammation and, not proofed but prospected, may do so some good.

 

[voodooless]

Speedy recovery @BDWoody. Thanks for sharing your story!

 

[AdamG]

It can also be an awesome stress reducer.

View attachment 365445

Clearly your Cats missed you and they seem to know when we are not well. They are showing a great deal of affection. That is incredibly soothing. I had one cat who had magical purring. It put me out like a light…Thanks for sharing Brad.

 

[BDWoody]

Clearly your Cats missed you and they seem to know when we are not well. They are showing a great deal of affection. That is incredibly soothing. I had one cat who had magical purring. It put me out like a light…Thanks for sharing Brad.

They've been hitting me with purr therapy at every chance. Might not be such a bad thing!

"The potential health benefits of a cat’s purr for humans may be what people find most fascinating. According to research, the human body may benefit from the frequency of a cat’s purr. Notably, research has shown that the vibrations emitted by a cat’s purr can lower blood pressure, lessen stress, and even promote healing."
https://vbvh.net/blog/the-therapeut...ext=The potential health,even promote healing.

 

[Salt]

Studies say owners of dogs live longer than owners of cats.
Why? Dogs frequently want to be outside with their owners

 

[Doodski]

A girlfriend has a housecat that requires her to use her cel tel for daily chat rather than sitting at a desktop monitor because the cat will get between her face and the monitor. Doing cat stuff... LoL. I have a nice cel tel but for sure the 27" high grade monitor kills a cel tel. I think a cat owner with such a cat would be missing out on web surf time. Why do cat owners show off cat time as in snoozing on their laps<?> Play time with a strung feather on a stick is a hoot.

 

[pseudoid]

I have a nice cel tel

Times sure have changed but I had never heard of anyone calling them a cel tel.
Down here, people just call them 'phones'. It's weird, I know!

 

[Doodski]

Times sure have changed but I had never heard of anyone calling them a cel tel.
Down here, people just call them 'phones'. It's weird, I know!

I differentiate because I have multiple lines. Never even thought about it until you mentioned it.

 

[PierreV]

Very glad you did not roll the dice on that one! Wish you a trouble free recovery.

 

[Rõlnnbacke]

I hope you feel better now and recover completely, BDWoody. I understand that, while you already were in good hands, you now are in good medical hands as well, so the odds are good.

One of the urges that can keep a person from calling for an ambulance I think is, paradoxically, fear. Fear and doubt can be paralysing, making it almost impossible to make an important decision. A few years ago I had an episode with bouts of chest pain in the heart area, but I felt allright and drinking a glass of water helped, so I thought it was heartburn (same nerves). One evening it became more severe and I got more and more afraid, reading about symptoms. I live very close to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Medical_Center_Groningen, so, panicking, I eventually went there. Though I just had to wait first, I underwent a complete examination, of which the results, after several hours, ruled out a heart atack. The people in the hospital were very friendly and not often in my life I have felt more gratefull and peacefull.

Peace to you all

 

[Keith_W]

A story of my own. A few years ago, I had an uncomfortable feeling in my chest. Being a doctor myself, I felt my pulse and diagnosed atrial fibrillation (irregular heartbeat). Some types of AF can be tolerated, but this one was fast and it was lowering my blood pressure, as I could tell from the lightheadedness. Given that my wife was away, I debated to myself - taxi? Ambulance? Then I remembered that I will go to the same hospital I work at, and if I arrived in a taxi in this condition the staff would talk about it. So ambulance it was.

When I arrived, the staff immediately recognized me. It was late at night, and the junior was on. I could see the fear in the poor guy. I was shown the ECG and asked "what would you like us to do". I could immediately see some nasty looking changes on the ECG that indicated it was more than atrial fibrillation, it looked as if my heart was under severe strain. My reply was "do what you would do for any patient with this condition". I was asked my permission for every intervention and I could tell they were studying my face for the slightest reaction to their suggestion.

Doctors sometimes have an ethical dilemma if you are an expert in the same field you are suffering from. Do you participate in your own management decisions? My view is that all patients should participate in management decisions - I explain the science to them, present the options, and the advantages and drawbacks of each approach, and my recommendation. If they agree, then we go ahead.

But it is not the same if you have a doctor as your patient, especially if you are less experienced and your patient knows much more than you on the subject. In this case there is a power imbalance that will influence decision making and outcome. I have been in that situation where I treat other doctors, and I use the same approach - here is the evidence, this is my opinion and recommendation.

Anyway, it all ended well. The junior (correctly) said that they can't give me a DC shock given that I am not fasted, and even if I was, it's not a good idea to do an anaesthetic procedure at that time of the night / early morning when there is limited backup. So all I need is stabilisation and monitoring, and DC shock in the morning. Great plan. I was out of hospital before noon, with outpatient cardiac follow-up.

 

[EERecordist]

It can be working too hard, it can be doing too little, it could be extremely bad luck or it could be a direct result of your life choices, but having a Heart Attack is one of those scary things that we've all seen in movies, and have all heard the handful of common symptoms for, but most will never experience. Well...lucky me...I got to go through this last week on Thursday when in the middle of what was quite the work call (my real work, not what I do here) I started to feel what was a mild pressure in my chest. Nothing crazy, nothing like what you see in the movies. I wasn't clutching my chest, I wasn't struggling to breathe, it just felt a little tight, like I had just run an extra wind sprint and expected it to just fade away. No big deal...

Well, a few minutes later it still wasn't feeling any better. Nothing extreme, and through the entire course of events, I never had what I would consider extreme pain anywhere. So, at this point I do a bunch of useless stuff, like pulling out my little portable Kardia Mobile EKG, my blood pressure cuff and my pulse oximeter, none of which showed me anything unusual. Another 5-10 minutes go by and nothing is getting better, so I go online and start looking up symptoms of a heart attack, because obviously who needs a cardiologist at a time like this, I'm perfectly capable of determining whether I am going to die in a few hours without treatment, right? hmmmm....

Another 10-15 minutes go by and I'm starting to imagine my left arm/shoulder is feeling...something. Well, of course I must be imagining that, since that's just one of the symptoms on every list you read, so it's likely just psychosomatic...just ignore that for a bit and see if it gets better. Wait, now I'm starting to feel a bit clammy and sweaty, and quite suddenly the words that came to my mind were

"Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes."

At that point, I decided to not let my vanity get in the way of survival so I actually called 911, took a couple of aspirin, unlocked my door and sat on my couch and waited. Paramedics got there within about 6 minutes where they got me loaded up and off we went. Hooked me up to an IV and a 12 lead EKG, which is where they were able to see that telltale STEMI pattern on the trace. Got me to one of the better cardiac units in the State which was only another 7 minutes down the road where I was met by a full team who descended on me like a hive of bees, got me switched to their gurney and started sprinting me down the hall towards the Cath Lab. It was a pretty intense time, with a lot happening. A catheter was fed through the radial artery of my right wrist (yes, that hurts) and they had other stuff going into IVs on the other arm, and to make a long story short, found a 100% blockage of the Right Coronary Artery. That was then cleared and a stent was placed, and the part of my heart that had been starved of Oxygen was back online. Whew!

From there it was to the Cardiac ICU for that night and the next day, and while there was a little excitement that first night (a little v-tach thrown in for fun) it's been smooth sailing since, and I was released on Saturday. My two kids and my ex-wife (we are very close friends) descended on my world and took over, cleaning out all the shit I like to eat and replacing it with the stuff that tastes like shit but that won't kill me, and helping in every way imaginable, and I've got amazing friends that have provided nothing but support, so I am in a good place in terms of getting through all this, but it's no joke.

I will have to go back for Open Heart Surgery later this year to replace my Aortic Valve (Bicuspid valve...not specifically related to the MI but a separate issue that it's time to take care of anyway) and to have a Coronary Bypass for the Left Anterior Descending Artery which has significant blockage, but that they wanted to wait to treat until they could do the graft and the valve replacement together. That's a few months down the road, after I've had a chance to fully recover from this most recent event.

So, why tell you all about this?

Here's the thing...the reason I am alive is that I resisted whatever urge it is that tells us to just tough it out, soldier on, stiff upper lip, don't be a whiner, that's something that happens to other people, I'm only 57 (fill in your age here), I'm 5'10" 155lbs, no obvious lifestyle problems other than too much coffee/sugar/fat/flavor/salt how could I be having a heart attack? I've ridden out kidney stones at home I can handle this, or whatever else. If I had followed my initial instinct to just go lay down for a few hours to see how I felt later, that may have awarded me the ultimate stupid prize in the ultimate stupid game. I am glad my son didn't have to find me there.

There isn't one set of symptoms for a heart attack. If you are concerned enough to be looking up heart attack symptoms PUT DOWN THE KEYBOARD, PICK UP YOUR PHONE AND CALL 911!
This is one of those medical events where once you've got a blocked coronary artery, there is a ticking clock counting down to zero, and if you decide you want to play the stupid game of watching that clock tick its way down as you ponder what web site to look at next, you may win the ultimate stupid prize.

So, please...please...at least take a minute and think about how you will react when you, or someone you love is experiencing anything that in any way could mean you're having a heart issue. Have no doubt that if you get to a hospital and you've just got some bad gas, that is a cause for celebration, not a sign that you shouldn't have called in the first place. I had quite a few of the nurses over the last few days tell me stories about people who waited too long, and you can see how it angers them when proper care is a 911 call away, but they just go die in their bedroom or end up dying on the way to the hospital instead because of their vanity.

On that happy note, I very much appreciate this community and thought that it might be worth sharing this crazy story for those who may go through something like it, in the hopes that instead of playing doctor with yourself, you will let an actual MD do it.

Thanks for listening, and now on with our regularly scheduled programming. Thank God.

We are glad you are well and thank you for your story which is relevant to us all!

A long time ago, I worked in medical research. The body is an amazing self-repairing, self-regenerating, machine with an immune system that fights off intruders. But with age both the self-repairing and immune system defenses become less effective.

Fortunately many of us live in developed urban areas where an EMT or paramedic can be there in under 10 minutes. Another sudden-onset medical situation is a stroke. The reversing drug treatment is very effective within an hour or two (from memory - I am not a doctor).

It is not a bad idea to keep your hospital go-bag and complete your advance medical directive with your primary health care provider.

We are thankful you are continuing to be with us on ASR!

 

[pseudoid]

Then I remembered that I will go to the same hospital I work at, and if I arrived in a taxi in this condition the staff would talk about it. So ambulance it was.

When I arrived, the staff immediately recognized me. It was late at night, and the junior was on. I could see the fear in the poor guy. I was shown the ECG and asked "what would you like us to do". I could immediately see some nasty looking changes on the ECG that indicated it was more than atrial fibrillation, it looked as if my heart was under severe strain. My reply was "do what you would do for any patient with this condition". I was asked my permission for every intervention and I could tell they were studying my face for the slightest reaction to their suggestion.

You missed a perfect-storm happening and you could have billed the hospital AND your insurance company (as a doctor) for services rendered. Or, at least, you could have made arrangements so that you did not have to pay for the hospital visit (as a patient).

 

[Rõlnnbacke]

too much coffee

That could depend on how much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_coffee and https://www.voedingscentrum.nl/encyclopedie/koffie.aspx#blokis-koffie-gezond? Well, dutch, but organization is 100% subsidized by our goverment, with information based on scientific consensus. It looks like coffee is good for the heart, among other things.

Again, good health!

 

[Sal1950]

@BDWoody Damn it Brad, I can't believe I've spent so much time here this week and just seen this thread on your issues.
I feel bad about not saying anything here much sooner.
That majorly sucks but very glad you've pulled thru the first part of your event well, your full recovery and good results
of the future procedures will be in my prayers.
I didn't see anything said here and I'm curious if you've monitored your cholesterol levels or had been taking any control
meds? I've been on that road for over 35 years now, with my total cholesterol level found to be over 350 back in 1990 !
My family history on both sides is a cardiovascular horror story with cancers being almost unheard of, but most members dying of heart attacks or strokes between 65 and 75. I'm getting very nervous.
I went in for a Echocardiogram 5 last Monday which thankfully came out OK and and I'm scheduled for another stress test next month, I do get EKGs fairly regularly.
This getting old schitt isn't for the squeamish.
Again, your in my thoughts and prayers.
cent' anni
Sal

 

[pseudoid]

Wasn't it Devo who had asked "Are we not men?" Most ASR members would prefer replying with "We are the objective kind!"
… which brings me to a personally serious question for @BDWoody:
How has this eight day old, and unplanned trip [ummm...] - in an ambulance - transformed your [internal] life-equation?
I am not asking about the crapola/ditties like eating better, or exercising, or listening to the doctors, etc.
More like: Have you made yourself some resolutions to make more time for music, or spend more money on hardware, or updating your bucket list, etc…?

I notice subtle changes after my mate's unplanned AFIB and really should ask her but she be not as objective as you is!

 

[Salt]

Wasn't it Devo who had asked "Are we not men?" Most ASR members would prefer replying with "We are the objective kind!"
… which brings me to a personally serious question for @BDWoody:
How has this eight day old, and unplanned trip [ummm...] - in an ambulance - transformed your [internal] life-equation?
I am not asking about the crapola/ditties like eating better, or exercising, or listening to the doctors, etc.
More like: Have you made yourself some resolutions to make more time for music, or spend more money on hardware, or updating your bucket list, etc…?

I notice subtle changes after my mate's unplanned AFIB and really should ask her but she be not as objective as you is!

Not yet right place for this, as there are some kind of intervention planned in near future what will subjectively be in focus predominantly at this time.
After that this may be object for discussions.

 

[pseudoid]

Not yet right place for this, as there are some kind of intervention planned in near future what will subjectively be in focus predominantly at this time.

I hope this in NOT in reference to my use of the word "men" but my question mark after it makes me innocent.