Of the more modern models, I feel they have a hole in the response between the midbass and tweeter, as in they don't quite meet in the middle. They can be dynamic, but lack detail and/or top-end treble.
On the La Scala AL5 and the Klipschorn AK6, don't they currently use the same tweeter and mid-range units? I must confess my guilty pleasure of watching several of the Klipsch speaker shootouts on the YouTube channel for Paducah Home Theater, a Klipsch specialist dealer. Although I know the sonics I hear on the stream are not really representative of the actual in-room sound, I do like the commentary on the differences between models from knowledgeable listeners.Depends on the model. I found the Lascala's mid bass boost to be distracting, fat and muddy in the room I listened. the klipschhorns make live recordings sound exciting and avoid the poor midbass of the lascala's while being able to play deep bass. In the long term klipsch speakers wear me out, but fun factor I can see why they're so popular.
Several automated room EQ devices require several (e.g. 8) mic placements in order for the software to get a "picture" of the room and listening positions. Instead of simply averaging the signals picked up by the mic in all its positions, they use "fuzzy logic" (a good thing) with weighting and some secret sauce to compensate for the anomalies you are talking about, whether they are due to the crossover or something else.Poorly designed crossovers will not be able to be corrected with EQ (but improved - sure). This is because if the crossover is suboptimal then correcting the FR at a single point in space will create problems at other points in space.
For example, if cancellation resulting from a suboptimal crossover causes a dip at the crossover point on-axis, using EQ to correct this dip will result in peaks off-axis.
Do the arrival time delays between the drivers contribute to the "live" sound or are other factors more dominant? Wouldn't arrival time issues make it harder to integrate a cone subwoofer for low bass?
Could you re-post the REW curve but do it from 20Hz-20kHz, and do it with 1/6th octave smoothing? The Y axis is fine. I'd like to see what its doing across the full range without heavy smoothing which obscures a lot.To anyone wondering about the Klipsch Sound as heard from the Klipschorn.
The Klipschorn without automated room/speaker correction like Audyssey (FLAT) or Dirac has somewhat jagged response, but has only a very slight (~~2 dB, usually less) average elevation of the mid frequencies or the treble.
With automated room, speaker correction it has fairly smooth midrange and treble. These graphs are the same as mine in the thread "Stereophile review of the Klipschorn."
The K77F tweeter, (divisions are 5 dB) post Audyssey FLAT, crosses the line at 12.27K, and extends to 17K, about +/- 1.5 dB to about 15K Hz. For a few, especially clean recordings, I can boost the high treble by about 3 dB with a tone control. With the right recordings, it is cortex tingling.
The great advantage of fully horn loaded speakers like the Klipschorn is that 1) They have very low distortion, including modulation distortion, and 2) they are marvelously sensitive --in an anechoic chamber, 101 dB at 2.83v (1 watt into 8 Ohms) --at 1 meter, and 105 dB/2.83/1 meter in a more or less"typical" living room. So, 64 watts into a Klipschorn is the equivalent of 1,024 watts into a typical 90 dB/2.83v/1 meter, bringing you about 114 dB at 13 feet, in a 4,000 cu. ft., with instantaneous peaks (1/4 second) 3 dB higher, at 116 dB, equal to full orchestral peaks (playing a bit louder than average). A large non-horn direct radiator speaker which was in a bass reflex, i.e., ported, cabinet, also made by Klipsch, with identical drivers, was measured, under the same acoustical conditions at three times the modulation distortion, at 10 dB lower output.
One reason the Klipschorn -- and many other speakers -- have sounded out of balance in recent years is that the recording industry has been involved in the "loudness wars," often resulting in less bass (by about 9 or 10 dB at 40 Hz) so that the overall loudness can be much louder (and more compressed/limited) than it could be without bass cut. I sometimes boost the bass by about 6 to 10 dB to compensate for this. It is totally unnecessary with good recordings, not under the thral of "the loudness wars," often classical or jazz, sometimes on SACD or DVD-A, etc.
Could you re-post the REW curve but do it from 20Hz-20kHz, and do it with 1/6th octave smoothing? The Y axis is fine. I'd like to see what its doing across the full range without heavy smoothing which obscures a lot.
I'm not wanting to pick on the Klipschorn - I have large horns - but the above looks smoother than the probable reality is.
Please humor me. I'd like to see 1/6th octave smoothing, or just post the REW file and I can make of it what I wish.1/6th is still heavy smoothing. var smoothing is the best compromise
Mic preamp broken, so I can't run new curves at the moment. Here are some from 2013 (I think).Could you re-post the REW curve but do it from 20Hz-20kHz, and do it with 1/6th octave smoothing? The Y axis is fine. I'd like to see what its doing across the full range without heavy smoothing which obscures a lot.
I'm not wanting to pick on the Klipschorn - I have large horns - but the above looks smoother than the probable reality is.
I got a pair of khorn that i have to place kn the future house, didn't expect that their frequency response could be Soo linear, i am stocked , i hope to use them soon! And i probably will add a mini DSP with Dirac live Soo i can tune them betterTo anyone wondering about the Klipsch Sound as heard from the Klipschorn.
The Klipschorn without automated room/speaker correction like Audyssey (FLAT) or Dirac has somewhat jagged response, but has only a very slight (~~2 dB, usually less) average elevation of the mid frequencies or the treble.
With automated room, speaker correction it has fairly smooth midrange and treble. These graphs are the same as mine in the thread "Stereophile review of the Klipschorn."
The K77F tweeter, (divisions are 5 dB) post Audyssey FLAT, crosses the line at 12.27K, and extends to 17K, about +/- 1.5 dB to about 15K Hz. For a few, especially clean recordings, I can boost the high treble by about 3 dB with a tone control. With the right recordings, it is cortex tingling.
The great advantage of fully horn loaded speakers like the Klipschorn is that 1) They have very low distortion, including modulation distortion, and 2) they are marvelously sensitive --in an anechoic chamber, 101 dB at 2.83v (1 watt into 8 Ohms) --at 1 meter, and 105 dB/2.83/1 meter in a more or less"typical" living room. So, 64 watts into a Klipschorn is the equivalent of 1,024 watts into a typical 90 dB/2.83v/1 meter, bringing you about 114 dB at 13 feet, in a 4,000 cu. ft., with instantaneous peaks (1/4 second) 3 dB higher, at 116 dB, equal to full orchestral peaks (playing a bit louder than average). A large non-horn direct radiator speaker which was in a bass reflex, i.e., ported, cabinet, also made by Klipsch, with identical drivers, was measured, under the same acoustical conditions at three times the modulation distortion, at 10 dB lower output.
One reason the Klipschorn -- and many other speakers -- have sounded out of balance in recent years is that the recording industry has been involved in the "loudness wars," often resulting in less bass (by about 9 or 10 dB at 40 Hz) so that the overall loudness can be much louder (and more compressed/limited) than it could be without bass cut. I sometimes boost the bass by about 6 to 10 dB to compensate for this. It is totally unnecessary with good recordings, not under the thral of "the loudness wars," often classical or jazz, sometimes on SACD or DVD-A, etc.
I got a pair of khorn that i have to place kn the future house, didn't expect that their frequency response could be Soo linear, i am stocked , i hope to use them soon! And i probably will add a mini DSP with Dirac live Soo i can tune them better
I'm glad you will be using Dirac. Many users find it to be superior to Audyssey.
As you probably know, it comes in at least 3 varieties.
Klipschorns are not very smooth unless helped by something like Dirac. They do have other great qualities, though like low distortion (especially low modulation distortion, high sensitivity, great dynamics, etc. I would urge you to 1) Treat the room first, 2) get a Full
Here is what Dirac says:
"To offer our business partners flexibility for licensing Dirac Live, we’ve developed three tiers.
— Ready: The system is prepared for Dirac Live Room Correction. Just purchase an end-user license to activate it.
— Limited bandwidth: The system can perform room correction up to 500 Hz, and the target curve can be tailored within this range. This correction is sufficient to deal with the bass and voice areas but not the entire audible spectrum. Upgrade Limited bandwidth to full bandwidth.
— Full bandwidth: This is the top tier of the room correction feature. It allows the system to be corrected across the entire frequency range while giving you full control of the target curve."
IMO, with modern recordings that fall victim of the "loudness wars" you may want 3 to 6 dB bass boost.
By using the "Full Bandwidth" Dirac, you can fix some anomalies in the mid and treble frequencies, as welltt
This is what I got on my receiver i use the full Dirac and can make the curve however I want,i hope to work soon on it, Klipschorn is an awesome speaker , mine are old but doesn't changed a lot with the time , they are powered with a single ended tube amp with 8 watt in class A might try the newer class d now, with higher sinad Soo they will be dead silenceI'm glad you will be using Dirac. Many users find it to be superior to Audyssey.
As you probably know, it comes in at least 3 varieties.
Klipschorns are not very smooth unless helped by something like Dirac. They do have other great qualities, though like low distortion (especially low modulation distortion, high sensitivity, great dynamics, etc. I would urge you to 1) Treat the room first, 2) get a Full
Here is what Dirac says:
"To offer our business partners flexibility for licensing Dirac Live, we’ve developed three tiers.
— Ready: The system is prepared for Dirac Live Room Correction. Just purchase an end-user license to activate it.
— Limited bandwidth: The system can perform room correction up to 500 Hz, and the target curve can be tailored within this range. This correction is sufficient to deal with the bass and voice areas but not the entire audible spectrum. Upgrade Limited bandwidth to full bandwidth.
— Full bandwidth: This is the top tier of the room correction feature. It allows the system to be corrected across the entire frequency range while giving you full control of the target curve."
IMO, with modern recordings that fall victim of the "loudness wars" you may want 3 to 6 dB bass boost.
By using the "Full Bandwidth" Dirac, you can fix some anomalies in the mid and treble frequencies, as well.
Egads, please don't! A low powered single ended triode is the ideal amp for high efficiency horn speakers. The only thing you're likely to achieve with higher power is the ability to blow out the diaphragms of the drivers if there's a mishap like an RCA cable accidently getting pulled. If you're having noise issues with your single ended amp, the solution is to either modify it or choose another single ended triode amp which doesn't have a noise problem.....they are powered with a single ended tube amp with 8 watt in class A might try the newer class d now, with higher sinad Soo they will be dead silence
What problem is that?I wonder if anybody here ever tryed to FIR-correct the problem in high treble that CDs have?
What problem is that?
Oh, I see you were talking about constant directivity horns, not the silver discs. Never mind."washed" sound above 10KHz, caused by the phase plug . that's why many can't stand CDs (though it is stupid to trade the much better mids (where 100% of acoustic instruments are present) of the CDs for better high-hats).