solderdude
Grand Contributor
You are totally right.
My mistake.
My mistake.
Enjoy the music sometimes, it sounds better than the line graphs..You are totally right.
My mistake.
It's really funny you said this. I hadn't listened to it for at least six months. But yesterday I got some more CDs and tried it out. I wanted to see how it would sound with the HD 700 headphones the DC-1 acted as an analog preamp with the CD player doing dac duty and the Emotiva A-100 did amp duty.Do you still have the Denon?
I totally agree with your subjective review. It’s really great and eventhough I have other cd players which have more resolution or detail, there’s smth special about this, but until I found this thread I didn’t know this was no delta sigma dac.
Anyway, not the best place to make this discussion. ASR is where all cd players and Dacs sound the same, which is one of the reasons I come here often..
Pardon me but there are only 2 or 3 dacs that measure bad enough to affirm they sound different from the others.
The only dac I owned that was measured here was Topping D30, and when compared to the Denon, it was like night and day difference.
I don’t think anyone subjectively can prefer the Topping to the Denon.
Pardon me but there are only 2 or 3 dacs that measure bad enough to affirm they sound different from the others.
The only dac I owned that was measured here was Topping D30, and when compared to the Denon, it was like night and day difference.
I don’t think anyone subjectively can prefer the Topping to the Denon.
Its anti-skip mechanisms aren't as robust as modern players so it is a little more sensitive to imperfect discs.
That's not possible, just use some more cds.. Notice the space between instruments, the bass lines, you can follow whatever instrument in the mix, with the Dac the details seems to be there but you have to search for them, the Topping really can't handle a tune..I have an old Denon DCD-920 (PCM61P) that works just fine, and compared to the D30 the sound can be described as rawer, fuller and blurrier, not better, the D30 is more transparent.
(once again this is non level matched purely subjective impressions no dbt. . )That's not possible, just use some more cds.. Notice the space between instruments, the bass lines, you can follow whatever instrument in the mix, with the Dac the details seems to be there but you have to search for them, the Topping really can't handle a tune..
Well its no TDA1541, I agree it's a bit harsh, on some some cds is bothersome, but for this is component matching..
Mine is heavily modded from the times I believed in modding, but I think it's great as is, and the good news is that it's pick up is dirt cheap (KSS - 210A).
CD players do sound good! If you never owned one, you should. Streaming is very handy, but I never enjoy music playing as on my cd players..
The abilities of upper range CD players of old to track and retrieve data was infinitely better than modern machines. As they get older however, you can get issues with suspension compression, motor bearing runout and optical mis-alignment. Actual laser failure or low emission is extremely rare.
I have 30 year old machines that will play virtually anything, no matter how damaged and 1st generation machines you can literally shake without mistracking (CDP-101).
In fact one of the demonstrations for the CDP-101 used to be to shake it, bang it with your hand and turn it upside down while playing. I can still do that with my CDP-101s.
I preferred the DCM’s (fuller) sound to the DCD-660. I kept seeing on Schiit that what they appear to prefer is some sort of multibit decoding followed by a tube stage. So after doing a little research, and finding out that in the 660 i was listening to multibit DAC, i added a cheap Chi-Fi tube buffer/preamp between it and my power amp. & what may have been ‘digital burrs’ & any perceived “treble harshness” as mentioned above (& i experienced, to a slight degree) was turned to sweetness. Distortion probably, but it worked, and for $47 worth a try. Especially since the “thin” sound gave way to a better soundstage ...
Years ago, I bought the Musical Fidelity X-10D tube buffer for much the same reason -- I read that it could improve the sound of cheaper CD players. Your Chinese buffer may be a copy of this unit.
I couldn't perceive that it improved anything so took it out of the audio path and packed it away. Now that we have the excellent DeltaWave software from @pkane, I might just dig it out and see what measurable difference it makes.
I bought one of those, too, in the mid-90s audio mania. Stereophile did measurements of it in their review, and it seems to do little at all for better or worse. It did lower channel separation a bit, which I’m convinced is appealing to some ears. It claimed to resolve impedance mismatches, but I can’t imagine that was a real problem at the time, with well designed gear.
I haven't seen that particular type of hybrid dac. But I did liusten to a hybrid where it used a tda 1541 chip (I think) where it used the bottom parts as R2R and then the top bits as some sort of current converter or something like that. It sounded like well...a hybrid! It reminded me more of delta sigma units I heard but not quite!I have the Denon DCD-660 (no digital outputs to send it through any of my cheap DACs) & love it (now that i f-*ked it up, see below) with classical, particularly my favorite 1951 Bayreuth “Parsifal.” I did purchase a Schiit Modi 3 based in part on Amir’s positive conclusion on this site. He emphatically stated that for $150 more the multibit version would be a waste of your money, since multibit tested so much more poorly (my paraphrase) — but that having paid the extra $$ one would convince oneself it sounded better. Seems he’s anti-multibit with almost religious fervor, for a scientist Unless i’m misinterpreting what i’ve read; quite possible. Yet there are many Joe Listeners who do prefer multibit, some claiming to be musicians themselves etc. The 660 sounded a bit ‘dryer’ and more ‘thin’ to me than my other, slightly more recent Denon DCM-370, the DAC situation therein apparently some sort of hybrid of multibit & the newer delta-sigma.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/BurrBrown/mXuryvt.pdf
(comments from ASR science guys appreciated - i love to learn here. But love more when i hear what i like
(In fact i wanted to believe that 20-ish yr old DCM would sound better, digital out to through the Modi - or Peachtree DACiTx or SMSL S10 — it didn’t)
I preferred the DCM’s (fuller) sound to the DCD-660. I kept seeing on Schiit that what they appear to prefer is some sort of multibit decoding followed by a tube stage. So after doing a little research, and finding out that in the 660 i was listening to multibit DAC, i added a cheap Chi-Fi tube buffer/preamp between it and my power amp. & what may have been ‘digital burrs’ & any perceived “treble harshness” as mentioned above (& i experienced, to a slight degree) was turned to sweetness. Distortion probably, but it worked, and for $47 worth a try. Especially since the “thin” sound gave way to a better soundstage ...
That said i prefer most anything that i stream through the Modi 3 without any tube nonsense
I have a one system with a Chromecast Audio -> Modi 3 -> Schiit SYS (passive volume control) -> power amp
& Denon DCD-660->tube buffer/preamp-> SYS (other input)->power amp (—> speakers)
Sorry - nothing scientific here, just wanting to weigh in on that CDP - i’ll go back to reading and learning now
That might have been the review that prompted me to buy it. From Sam Tellig's review:
At the risk of being repetitious, the X-10D is a stunning upgrade for the Marantz CD63 or CD63SE. The unit adds richness, dimensionality, and improves dynamics. It takes the sounds of these players—which, straight out of the analog outputs, can be a little thin—and fleshes it out. It smooths the treble, adds body to the midrange and bass. It takes the $500 Marantz CD63SE and makes it sound more like a $1500-$2000 CD player—all for $199.95.
Intriguing . . .
That would be interesting, to see what measurable differences, & to what degree there may be ...I couldn't perceive that it improved anything so took it out of the audio path and packed it away. Now that we have the excellent DeltaWave software from @pkane, I might just dig it out and see what measurable difference it makes.
the processing in DCM 370 is a combination of the PMD-100 chip (for HDCD decoding+a built-in digital filter) from pacific microsonics and the Burr-Brown PCM-59P multibit DACI have the Denon DCD-660 (no digital outputs to send it through any of my cheap DACs) & love it (now that i f-*ked it up, see below) with classical, particularly my favorite 1951 Bayreuth “Parsifal.” I did purchase a Schiit Modi 3 based in part on Amir’s positive conclusion on this site. He emphatically stated that for $150 more the multibit version would be a waste of your money, since multibit tested so much more poorly (my paraphrase) — but that having paid the extra $$ one would convince oneself it sounded better. Seems he’s anti-multibit with almost religious fervor, for a scientist Unless i’m misinterpreting what i’ve read; quite possible. Yet there are many Joe Listeners who do prefer multibit, some claiming to be musicians themselves etc. The 660 sounded a bit ‘dryer’ and more ‘thin’ to me than my other, slightly more recent Denon DCM-370, the DAC situation therein apparently some sort of hybrid of multibit & the newer delta-sigma.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/BurrBrown/mXuryvt.pdf
(comments from ASR science guys appreciated - i love to learn here. But love more when i hear what i like
(In fact i wanted to believe that 20-ish yr old DCM would sound better, digital out to through the Modi - or Peachtree DACiTx or SMSL S10 — it didn’t)
I preferred the DCM’s (fuller) sound to the DCD-660. I kept seeing on Schiit that what they appear to prefer is some sort of multibit decoding followed by a tube stage. So after doing a little research, and finding out that in the 660 i was listening to multibit DAC, i added a cheap Chi-Fi tube buffer/preamp between it and my power amp. & what may have been ‘digital burrs’ & any perceived “treble harshness” as mentioned above (& i experienced, to a slight degree) was turned to sweetness. Distortion probably, but it worked, and for $47 worth a try. Especially since the “thin” sound gave way to a better soundstage ...
That said i prefer most anything that i stream through the Modi 3 without any tube nonsense
I have a one system with a Chromecast Audio -> Modi 3 -> Schiit SYS (passive volume control) -> power amp
& Denon DCD-660->tube buffer/preamp-> SYS (other input)->power amp (—> speakers)
Sorry - nothing scientific here, just wanting to weigh in on that CDP - i’ll go back to reading and learning now