Dan Clark Audio AEON RT Review (closed headphone)

[IAtaman]

Well, don't worry about it, we still respect you, I'm sure most do, even if they don't believe the DAC comparison thing - it's just one thing and it's not that controversial anyway,

Oh is that right? DACs having sound signature is not that controversial? Interesting. That would not be my characterization, but then again, clearly it is just me.

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

Quotes from that thread Inwas trying to raise here: “Some comments by @restorer-john have caused me to think about this situation. We stand little chance of convincing, or engaging in meaningful discussion with people with this approach. Like restorer-john I think there is a lot more talk of it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

How about cables having sound signatures, would you say that is also "not that controversial" either? Or does that also depend on who is making the claim?

 

[PeteL]

Oh is that right? DACs having sound signature is not that controversial? Interesting. That would not be my characterization, but then again, clearly it is just me.

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

Quotes from that thread Inwas trying to raise here: “Some comments by @restorer-john have caused me to think about this situation. We stand little chance of convincing, or engaging in meaningful discussion with people with this approach. Like restorer-john I think there is a lot more talk of it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

How about cables having sound signatures, would you say that is also "not that controversial" either? Or does that also depend on who is making the claim?

What is your take on manufacturers that obviously have very high stakes on trying to trying to appeal to the objectivists crowd like this community offering different filters on the product they release. Like Topping for exemple. Should they also be exposed as selling snake oil to their customer by offering them options that have no chances of doing the slightest difference? Do you think we should boycott a company like that?

 

[IAtaman]

What is your take on manufacturers that obviously have very high stakes on trying to trying to appeal to the objectivists crowd like this community offering different filters on the product they release. Like Topping for exemple. Should they also be exposed as selling snake oil to their customer by offering them options that have no chances of doing the slightest difference? Do you think we should boycott a company like that?

I did not call anyone a liar and I did not say anything about a boycott. This is the second time you are claiming I meant things I have not, and I do not appreciate that. I would be happy to engage with you when you stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[PeteL]

I did not call anyone a liar and I did not say anything about a boycott. This is the second time you are claiming I meant things I have not, and I do not appreciate that. I would be happy to engage with you when you stop putting words in my mouth.

In both cases, there was an interrogation point. First was "Do I grasp it well?" (The meaning of what you are saying) So no, ok, you believe Mr Clark when he says he hear difference, The second is also a question. "Should we boycott them?". So you can clarify your toughts if I misunderstood you.

 

[Robbo99999]

Oh is that right? DACs having sound signature is not that controversial? Interesting. That would not be my characterization, but then again, clearly it is just me.

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

Quotes from that thread Inwas trying to raise here: “Some comments by @restorer-john have caused me to think about this situation. We stand little chance of convincing, or engaging in meaningful discussion with people with this approach. Like restorer-john I think there is a lot more talk of it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

How about cables having sound signatures, would you say that is also "not that controversial" either? Or does that also depend on who is making the claim?

No, but listen, in the scheme of things it doesn't matter for the case of @Dan Clark , he's acknowledged (in response to my posts) it's a small effect in relation to the benefit of the transducer (headphone or speaker), and because Dan Clark follows the science with his headphone design and they measure great for low distortion and smooth frequency response, combined with his appreciated presence on our forums then I think we can cut him some slack for negligeable DAC improvements. Let's not fall out over small fry, it is small fry, even Dan Clark acknowledged it's small fry in comparison to the headphone you're using, so let's keep it in perspective - don't be trying to drive away an esteemed head of a headphone manufacturer that is engaging with our headphone community over something as small as DAC differences, which he himself has indirectly acknowledged as being small differences, so let's leave it be, it's better to have him here than to worry about DAC arguments (we know about DACS). (I know you're a good guy, but leave it on this one.)

 

[Doodski]

Sigh* Can we stay on topic people? Dan Clark is great to have here. We are fortunate to attract people such as Dan Clark!

 

[Galke6]

Hey guys I don't know this is the place for asking this but is possible to pair my dongle Hidizs S9 pro with a desktop AMP (Topping L30 II? I don't feel I need another dac and I always wonder if this kind of pairing is possible

 

[staticV3]

is it possible to pair my dongle Hidizs S9 pro with a desktop AMP (Topping L30 II?

Yes, using a 3.5mm to RCA cable like this:

 

[GaryH]

No transducer can have linearity to 0, that is flat-out impossible unless a chamber is perfectly sealed. Our headphones would probably theoretically do it to. But if there's any leak at all maintaining DC pressure requires infinite excursion and all headphones leak to some degree.

I see you've edited your initial erroneous, sweary, ad hominem post. Oratory was talking about an ideal pressure chamber (so perfectly sealed), hence him saying 'theoretically down to 0 Hz'. He then says LCDs are not perfectly airtight so will not achieve flat bass down to absolutely 0 Hz. And I wrote 'measuring down to ~0 Hz' i.e. approximately or close to zero.

More to the point go ahead and show me any actual 5Hz content that isn't some silly test track or test tone.

There are many such examples, multiple of which in the two threads I already linked in my previous post e.g.:

Spoiler

Green: peak, red: average:

More movie soundtracks listed here, some reported down to 2 Hz.

Here are a couple more random tracks from my own music collection:

Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture

The Chemical Brothers' We Are The Night

I do not believe there is a movie theater, or subwoofer, in the world that can reproduce 5Hz which begs the question why anyone would bother to produce it for a movie.

We're talking about the cause of different perceived bass impact with headphones, not movie theaters or subwoofers. Headphones can achieve some things very few if any loudspeaker systems can, one of them being very low bass extension, when they are operating in (near) pressure chamber conditions.

Maybe some Audeze does better from 5 to 3Hz so then go buy that if it matters to you

If you want to go to hypothetical zero we could put your headphone on with a vice and get a perfect seal!

No need, my $5 earphones with no front venting create a pretty much perfect seal and so response down to ~0 Hz. Not sure why you're being so defensive and sarcastic.

EDIT: For fun I threw an Expanse on and just using normal pressure on the coupler it's -3dB at 5Hz vs 100Hz and when I taped it down to increase seal it's -1.5 at 5H vs 100Hz. And the Audio Precision doesn't even show results below 4Hz, even though I swept from 1Hz up, presumably because they can't reliably calculate it or they think it's not worth it, for that we'd have to ask them.

Thanks for doing the measurement. That's a nice empirical demonstration of what I've been saying i.e. greater seal results in greater bass extension. But due to the variable seal behaviour on human heads Dr Sean Olive has measured using in-ear mics with several of your headphones, when worn the bass extension you measured for the Expanse may not be achieved (and certainly not that from the artificially increased-seal taped-down measurement).

 

[NHL99]

In da club, Amirs club

Very little distortion, recalling that this is how the headphones in the 70s sounded, can that really be?
Tempting to crank the volume up, probably not a sound idea.

 

[Robbo99999]

In da club, Amirs club
View attachment 318117
Very little distortion, recalling that this is how the headphones in the 70s sounded, can that really be?
Tempting to crank the volume up, probably not a sound idea.

Isn't that an Aeon RT though, Amir has The Stealth, or at least that's the one he uses now, he probably doesn't use the Aeon RT even if he ever owned it.

 

[NHL99]

Isn't that an Aeon RT though, Amir has The Stealth, or at least that's the one he uses now, he probably doesn't use the Aeon RT even if he ever owned it.

From the review of the RT 'Conclusions It has taken us a dozen or so headphone reviews to get us a stellar specimen in the form AEON RT. Tonality is almost good enough without any EQ for those of you who don't have access to EQ.'

Decent price and no need for EQ, it's also comfortable on the head.
The ears might take a hit if one sits too long with high volume.

 

[Rottmannash]

View attachment 318230
From the review of the RT 'Conclusions It has taken us a dozen or so headphone reviews to get us a stellar specimen in the form AEON RT. Tonality is almost good enough without any EQ for those of you who don't have access to EQ.'

Decent price and no need for EQ, it's also comfortable on the head.

I have the RT Open and the only HP's I own that I don't feel compelled to use EQ with.

 

[solderdude]

recalling that this is how the headphones in the 70s sounded, can that really be?

Recalling some things from our, over the years altering, perception of what seems to have been in those days is more likely the cause.

Most headphones from that era were severely limited in bass extension which DCA are not.
Distortion was not so much of a technical problem back then, resonances were.
Higher sensitivity, of later headphones, came with increased distortion at higher SPL as a trade-off so just like with today's less sensitive headphones measured distortion, even up to higher SPL, is not much of an issue now as it was back then.

 

[ReaderZ]

View attachment 318230
From the review of the RT 'Conclusions It has taken us a dozen or so headphone reviews to get us a stellar specimen in the form AEON RT. Tonality is almost good enough without any EQ for those of you who don't have access to EQ.'

Decent price and no need for EQ, it's also comfortable on the head.
The ears might take a hit if one sits too long with high volume.

This one got me to read latest reviews. Of all the normal headphones reviewed here, RT is still the hardest to drive, it needs way more current than even HE6-SE, and many amps distortion performance tanks at 16ohm and below.

 

[Blake]

This one got me to read latest reviews. Of all the normal headphones reviewed here, RT is still the hardest to drive, it needs way more current than even HE6-SE, and many amps distortion performance tanks at 16ohm and below.

I drive my Aeon RT Closed with a Schiit Magni Heretic, no problem. The review of the Heretic here notes that it's "stable to 12 ohm".

 

[AVKS]

This one got me to read latest reviews. Of all the normal headphones reviewed here, RT is still the hardest to drive, it needs way more current than even HE6-SE, and many amps distortion performance tanks at 16ohm and below.

Nah. When I was running my 1V DAC output, my THX 789 ran out of steam with the HE6se-v2 while never struggled with my Aeon RTs at any volume; bumping to 4V balanced DAC eliminated that shortcoming entirely. I know what the numbers are but it didn''t play out that way in real world usage.

 

[staticV3]

Nah. When I was running my 1V DAC output, my THX 789 ran out of steam with the HE6se-v2 while never struggled with my Aeon RTs at any volume; bumping to 4V balanced DAC eliminated that shortcoming entirely. I know what the numbers are but it didn''t play out that way in real world usage.

But it did. The HE6se needs more voltage, the Aeon RT more current.
When you used a 1V DAC, you were obviously voltage limited so the HE6se was naturally the one struggling.

 

[AVKS]

But it did. The HE6se needs more voltage, the Aeon RT more current.
When you used a 1V DAC, you were obviously voltage limited so the HE6se was naturally the one struggling.

Point is though that even with the lower DAC input, the RTs had no issue getting to more than sufficient volumes while the HE6se struggled on the same amp. Categorically calling it harder to drive may be academically correct, and I acknolwedge that you're right if that was the intent of your comment, but in practical use it may not be the audible outcome. Classifying the trouble scenarios may be worthwhile.

 

[RosalieTheDog]

Perhaps I am overlooking something, but they don't seem to be available in Europe, only the more expensive Dan Clarks. Am I mistaken?