Will consumers buy the Dutch & Dutch 8C?

[restorer-john]

Hypercardioid would be even sexier pattern!

Or even shotgun.

 

[Martijn Mensink]

Guys, you're killing me!

Most likely JBL's

I believe they're actually Beovox S75 speakers.

@Purité Audio ,

And FWIW, last I checked Dutch & Dutch’s web page I only saw photos of high end domestic use situations.

Check out our Instagram for some more studio photos.
https://www.instagram.com/dutch_and_dutch/

 

[Purité Audio]

Matt sent me some photos of the 8Cs at Strongroom and at the ‘Church’ I will send them over.
BW Keith

 

[Kal Rubinson]

He's a hipster millennial holding Michael Jackson's thriller on vinyl just pretending to listen, as there are no power or LAN cables connecting his D&D speakers together, or to the preamp and turntable he doesn't even own.

And he has a subwoofer which, at this time, is not yet supported by D&D.

 

[restorer-john]

I believe they're actually Beovox S75 speakers.

On their original stands judging by the angle too.

 

[restorer-john]

Check out our Instagram for some more studio photos.

Some nice shots.

I like this one: actual near 'field' monitors.

 

[Biblob]

Some nice shots.

I like this one: actual near 'field' monitors.

View attachment 30112

No nasty reflections there to ruin the timbre!

 

[Sergei]

From my admittedly very small sample of studio customers the SBIr ‘type’ of speakers are rapidly gaining a foothold, their advantages are obvious once you compare them directly to traditional actives/subs.

Similar full-range Barefoot studio monitors (https://barefootsound.com) were sold since 2006. They did gain a foothold. What allowed them to gain it was the proliferation of smaller, space-constrained and budget-constrained recording studios over the past decade.

The issue isn't that 8C doesn't have its advantages. The issue is that it is being marketed too widely and too loosely IMHO, which is not unusual at the initial phase of a young company, with a new product in search for a market niche. Yet this phase better pass soon.

An engineer I spoke to recently opined that companies such as ATC had ‘lost’ the pro market , hence their marketing push towards the Hi-End.

I would agree that ATC lost the kind of market dominance it enjoyed decades ago. Lost the market? I don't think so. They found long ago and keep occupying a large portion of a distinct market niche: ultra-low-distortion studio monitors.

Indeed, they have branched into home audio with "neo-classics", such as https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/ATC-SCM40a-Active-Tower-Speakers, in the price range that 8C seeks to occupy.

The bottom line is that the 8Cs just sound better in room, nothing to do with ‘snake oil just solid engineering.
Keith

This remains to be proven. Scientifically. Does it sound better than comparably priced ATC-SCM40a? Does it even sound better than https://barefootsound.com/footprint01/, a pair of which costs just $3,745?

 

[Purité Audio]

They certainly sound better than ATCs active 50’s .


Keith

 

[Soniclife]

Similar full-range Barefoot studio monitors (https://barefootsound.com) were sold since 2006.

Which models had a cardioid or similar controlled dispersion?

 

[Shadrach]

Forum members, do you think consumers, as opposed to music industry pros, will buy all-in-one speakers like the Dutch & Dutch 8C's? Note, we have no published specs or details on the quality of the digital guts, or even the amps inside. I'm wondering whether to pick up this line, but I'm quite uncertain.

A really good idea is to go and listen to a pair. Better still at that price you should be able to arrange a home demo.

 

[Absolute]

Imo, there's no specific market for speakers like D&D. They follow the science regarding tonal qualities and are equally suited to the pro market and the hifi-market, and because of that they can help to break the circle of confusion.

People who are tired of changing components endlessly are a target. People with difficult rooms are a target. Those that want supreme sound as easy as possible are a target. Those who are techno-freaks are targets and those that don't care about anything other than the result are equally so.
Those that want smaller equipment without much penalty, those that want speakers designed for wall-proximity and those that want subwoofer-like performance without subwoofers are also targets.

These speakers needs to find their way into environments where people can compare them to other systems, otherwise they'll be forgotten when it's decisionmaking-time.

 

[Sergei]

Which models had a cardioid or similar controlled dispersion?

I question the supposedly universal value of cardioid dispersion achieved through passive design elements. Especially for near-field studio monitors. If you believe this is a unique and novel idea, please go to your nearest electronics store and look at the myriad of cylinder-shaped portable bluetooth speakers with passive radiators on their left and right sides.

I understand benefits of finely-controlled dispersion achieved via active design elements. Especially in the context of home stereo. I haven't heard https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/speakers/beolab-90, yet its reviews make perfect sense to me, as they corroborate precisely the type of behavior I'd expect, given the design.

Reviews claiming the superiority of 8C over everything don't make sense to me, sorry. The right way to convince guys like me is to use something like REW to match the 8C measured frequency response curve on a well-known pair of low-distorting active speakers with same or wider frequency range, carefully match the levels, and then run a blind test.

Imo, there's no specific market for speakers like D&D.

Unfortunately, in this case there may be no specific profits for the company either. A new product has to prove that it is better than the incumbent products. Unless the new product is vastly and universally superior on virtually all characteristics, it has to find a market niche where the vendor can unambiguously prove its superiority.

I dig the benefits of using more of the speaker surfaces for placing its transducers and ports. I dig the benefits of wider dispersion in the context of smaller rooms with hard surfaces. And, believe it or not, I dig the clear and minimalistic design, as well as the marketing materials involving green open spaces and "clean underwear" .

However, if you want meaningful global sales, I believe the marketing message needs to be tightened, and markets narrowed down. For instance, you could advertise C8 as an "urban-oriented" system, which, while providing full-range sound, is less likely to disturb apartment neighbors than a system with subwoofer placed on a floor.

Correspondingly, if you want to sell in the USA, your photos better include smallish apartments with views to Central Park in New York, Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco etc. Also, you can emphasize the "all in one" nature of 8C, and how even an audio-technology-novice young professional woman can achieve great sound in her cute yet not too spacious apartment.

 

[Juhazi]

Sergei, you just don't understand the cardioid thing right. Please study it a bit more and you will find out how difficult it is to achieve down to 100Hz.

 

[Sergei]

Sergei, you just don't understand the cardioid thing right. Please study it a bit more to and you will find out how difficult it is to achieve down to 100Hz.

To start with, speakers radiating to the sides, at frequencies other than those perceived as omnidirectional, can be a huge liability in non-symmetrical audio spaces.

A north-European typically rectangular apartment, with sparse furniture, may respond well to 8C. A typical Californian house living room, which is almost universally non-symmetrical, would be a much tougher environment.

Then, why 100Hz? Why not 80Hz, below which human hearing perception is universally accepted as omnidirectional? What happens in the 80Hz to 100Hz range? Exciting level jumps and cancellations as the listener moves around? This is a very important range for EDM.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Sergei, you just don't understand the cardioid thing right. Please study it a bit more to and you will find out how difficult it is to achieve down to 100Hz.

ME Geithain did cardioid down to 30 Hz in 2002:

https://www.me-geithain.de/de/assets/media/presse_pdf/Studiomagazin-Physik-02_02.pdf

Science means knowing the history too.

 

[Purité Audio]

Geithain aren’t bad, a little more congested than the 8Cs,


Keith

 

[dc655321]

If you believe this is a unique and novel idea, please go to your nearest electronics store and look at the myriad of cylinder-shaped portable bluetooth speakers with passive radiators on their left and right sides.

What do passive radiators have to do with achieving a cardioid radiation field?

Nothing at all.

 

[Dialectic]

how even an audio-technology-novice young professional woman can achieve great sound in her cute yet not too spacious apartment.

You, sir, have identified the target market for the Dutch & Dutch 8C!

 

[restorer-john]

You, sir, have identified the target market for the Dutch & Dutch 8C!

Yep, that's why I wanted that leggy, Scandinavian blue eyed blonde reclining on the sofa in her minimalist warehouse apartment, looking thoughtfully out her window.

Could it be that successful young professional women with an eye for one-off quality solutions, will be the second biggest buyers of 8Cs after industry professionals wanting studio monitors? The dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles may just be the most difficult to sell to.