Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[andreasmaaan]

Unless I'm missing something, the entire value of dispersion to the 45+(or greater) degree region of a speaker has to be the reflections it causes. If you use treatments to absorb all the sound coming from those angles, aren't you really just accomplishing the same thing as a narrow dispersion speaker, but with way more work??

I agree with you personally, but I think what @infinitesymphony was pointing out was that, even if you are absorbing the first lateral reflections, another advantage of wide-directivity speakers may be that a wider sweet spot is possible.

@infinitesymphony I think the confusion arose because you referred to wider "soundstage" as opposed to sweet spot in your post? There's no reason I can think of why wider-directitvity speakers would throw a wider soundstage in the absence of lateral reflections.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I, for one, think that page of guidelines is fantastic! I really wish other (any?) speaker manufacturers would publish the same. Yes, they are only guidelines and are from a control room perspective, but at a glance one can get a really good idea of how the various models interact with rooms of various sizes and different listening distances. That's information, when taken in context, people can apply to their own use case to help select the right speaker.

There's way too much (at least in the consumer market) of a tendency in this industry to promote "whatever speaker it is we are marketing the hell out of at this time" as the correct answer to every question.

When I looked at the chart a while ago I found they only make 1 speaker recommended for the listening distance of the closest seat in my music room!

 

[Sancus]

When I looked at the chart a while ago I found they only make 1 speaker recommended for the listening distance of the closest seat in my music room!

If it's a 1236A, the one is all you're gonna need

 

[Frank Dernie]

If it's a 1236A, the one is all you're gonna need

Those were the ones 182kg!

 

[tuga]

Within certain delay ranges those reflections are not heared as echo or reverb. Again: google precedence effect, or better read @Floyd Toole's book.

This I did not say. The smoothness of the reflextion does matter, otherwise the precedence effect may collapse. That's the reason to measure the spinorama in the first place.

It's not just about frequency response at the listening spot, those reflections will affect imaging at the very minimum.

Besides not all of us can afford the luxury of a dedicated listening room and family rooms are often not symmetrical or at least the furniture is not layed out symmetrically on both side walls.

Toole's room is extremelly far from symmetrical (I know he listens to surround but not many recordings are available in surround):

 

[LTig]

Using acoustic treatment, he can get better sense of spaciousness than bare walls, and far better imaging and detail.

You tell him...

 

[LTig]

The salient point is not to conflate between people's preference to wide dispersion with reflections.
That is yet to be tested.

When there are no reflections a speaker with a wide dispersion sounds like one with narrow dispersion - you're going zo hear direct sound only.

 

[LTig]

It's not just about frequency response at the listening spot, those reflections will affect imaging at the very minimum.

Besides not all of us can afford the luxury of a dedicated listening room and family rooms are often not symmetrical or at least the furniture is not layed out symmetrically on both side walls.

Toole's room is extremelly far from symmetrical (I know he listens to surround but not many recordings are available in surround):

... as is mine.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

With most setups being oriented in living rooms like that, I think absorbing first sidewall reflection should be the general recommendation.

 

[infinitesymphony]

I agree with you personally, but I think what @infinitesymphony was pointing out was that, even if you are absorbing the first lateral reflections, another advantage of wide-directivity speakers may be that a wider sweet spot is possible.

@infinitesymphony I think the confusion arose because you referred to wider "soundstage" as opposed to sweet spot in your post? There's no reason I can think of why wider-directitvity speakers would throw a wider soundstage in the absence of lateral reflections.

Nailed it. I guess I meant "being able to hear the soundstage in a wider sweet spot."

 

[matt3421]

there may have been something with the way amirs loaned speaker was configured, as i just watched Z's youtube review of the 8341a and he says they get incredibly loud

 

[q3cpma]

there may have been something with the way amirs loaned speaker was configured, as i just watched Z's youtube review of the 8341a and he says they get incredibly loud

That would make sense, as the quoted figures are quite loud, and Genelec's stuff is known for going loud (or "loud and clear", as their slogan says).

 

[infinitesymphony]

Amir is used to listening to $22K speakers with -3 dB points at 23 Hz - 45 KHz, and the manual doesn't even mention a max SPL rating. He's got a high bar for a starting point when it comes to FR and volume. Most folks who own the Genelec point-source speakers seem to think they're very loud, but many of them seem to be using them nearfield without such a high expectation for volume.

When they were first released I recall a lot of back and forth from studio owners about the speakers being limited in a mid- to farfield control room scenario, more so than previous models.

 

[Sancus]

It's also a test of a *single* speaker in an unusually huge garage, so there's no stereo reinforcement and a lot of room volume to absorb bass. I honestly don't think it'd be that hard to max out a speaker with a probable ~95-100db @1m max output under 100hz, if you're a few meters away in such a large space.

But again, it's the middle of the range and the 8351B, 8361A, and subs are there for you if you need more power, and Genelec's specs for all of that stuff are probably accurate.

 

[LTig]

It's also a test of a *single* speaker in an unusually huge garage, so there's no stereo reinforcement and a lot of room volume to absorb bass. I honestly don't think it'd be that hard to max out a speaker with a probable ~95-100db @1m max output under 100hz, if you're a few meters away in such a large space.

The listening tests are not done in the garage.

 

[Igor Kirkwood]

When there are no reflections a speaker with a wide dispersion sounds like one with narrow dispersion - you're going zo hear direct sound only.

You said ,with a very dry room (RT 60 = 0,2) , reflexions of speakers will be weak, OK

I think this is better .

 

[Sancus]

The listening tests are not done in the garage.

You're right, I just went back and read the review. I honestly dislike the listening tests so I don't pay much attention to them, my bad.

It states it was done at desk/workstation and at 1 meter. Dunno how large the room is, but I actually have no idea what happened with this speaker. All the actual information I've seen, between tests from S&R and Genelec specs(which seem very accurate given how closely they conform to measurements...) indicate it should have gone to at least 95db @ 1m if not 100. And there's no way in hell I could stand such a volume, let alone describe it as not that loud.

So, who knows how loud this speaker actually got. There's no way to tell. Sometime this year I'm going to get a pair of 8351B, so I'll probably test the max SPL of those with and without subs when I get them. I expect they will have much, much more than I need.

 

[infinitesymphony]

I think you're both right and that at one point the listening tests for some of the other speakers were done in the garage?

Sometime this year I'm going to get a pair of 8351B, so I'll probably test the max SPL of those with and without subs when I get them. I expect they will have much, much more than I need.

Definitely looking forward to the review on those.

 

[hyperplanar]

I would imagine if Amir listened to a pair instead of one speaker that might have met his volume requirements? An extra 6 dB is significantly louder when at an already high SPL. I think this is a factor that shouldn’t be overlooked when reading the subjective evaluation of headroom in the reviews.

 

[infinitesymphony]

I would imagine if Amir listened to a pair instead of one speaker that might have met his volume requirements? An extra 6 dB is significantly louder when at an already high SPL. I think this is a factor that shouldn’t be overlooked when reading the subjective evaluation of headroom in the reviews.

That would result in higher SPL, but it sounds like other speakers were able to meet his expectations in mono. He is comparing apples to apples (with subjective hindsight) even though he always has oranges (i.e. Salons, C52s) on the back of his mind.